How Straight does a neck need to be?

Question:

> I bought a nice used P-bass about a month ago.  It has recieved little > use, and plays very nicely.  I just sighted down the neck, and it > appears very slightly bowed towards the strings.

Bowed TOWARDS the strings? No, it should be somewhere between flat and bowed AWAY from the strings, otherwise you will get buzz or you will have to set your strings uncomfortably high. I find a bass playable with neck relief (how low the frets are at the middle of the neck compared to the ends) somewhere between flat and maybe .025" though I like it best roughly midway in that range. YMMV.

Response:

Hi all Some time ago, I read a Roger Sadowski’s article about setting up a bass guitar. According to him, the trussrod adjustment should be just enough to avoid 1st fret buzz/rattle. I tried this with my Warwick Corvette and it worked fine. Just my two cents. Cristiano Oliveira – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I bought a nice used P-bass about a month ago.  It has recieved little > use, and plays very nicely.  I just sighted down the neck, and it > appears very slightly bowed towards the strings. > Should the neck appear this way?  I have a Les Paul that has the > flattest neck you have ever seen.  Should a bass be different? > Pete Collin > I prefer my bass necks to be nearly straight.. I tend to use far less relief > than any factory spec.. and more straight than most players. > You have to have a pretty good fingerboard and fret work to get away with > it. > But, yes, they do have some relief, and are supposed to, but it should play > nicely even so. > Twang! > — > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

> I bought a nice used P-bass about a month ago.  It has recieved little > use, and plays very nicely.  I just sighted down the neck, and it > appears very slightly bowed towards the strings. > Bowed TOWARDS the strings? No, it should be somewhere between flat and bowed > AWAY from the strings, otherwise you will get buzz or you will have to set > your strings uncomfortably high.

If you look at an archery bow. you could say the the bow was bowed toward the strings.. the middle of the bow is bowed away, but the ends bend toward.. I’m sure he meant the same thing. Twang! I find a bass playable with neck relief > (how low the frets are at the middle of the neck compared to the ends) > somewhere between flat and maybe .025" though I like it best roughly midway > in that range. YMMV.

— Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

> -Brian Pearl said…- > *…I found that it is best to wait 24 hrs before judging the > effectiveness of a truss rod adjustment…[/color] *

I recommend the same. — ‘My Website’ (http://tinyurl.com/l68a) posted via the bass forum at http://pointbeing.com

Response:

> I bought a nice used P-bass about a month ago.  It has recieved little > use, and plays very nicely.  I just sighted down the neck, and it > appears very slightly bowed towards the strings. > Should the neck appear this way?  I have a Les Paul that has the > flattest neck you have ever seen.  Should a bass be different? > Pete Collin

I prefer my bass necks to be nearly straight.. I tend to use far less relief than any factory spec.. and more straight than most players. You have to have a pretty good fingerboard and fret work to get away with it. But, yes, they do have some relief, and are supposed to, but it should play nicely even so. Twang! — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

I like the way this page describes ’setting up’ a bass.  The only tricky part is that it lists metric feeler guages… http://www.wheatdesign.com/rmmbfaq.html#setup Bass Player also did a series of articles over 4 issues that thoroughly explains the different aspects of setting up a bass guitar (Nov ‘01, Dec ‘01, Jan ‘02 & Feb ‘02).  About a year ago, I decided to stop paying folks to tweak the truss rod, raise the strings and intonate the bridge – and the Bass Player articles were my initial handbook. There was also an article in Jan ‘03 about a bass tech at Berklee – very insightful. I’d recommend that all bass players learn to set up their instrument…it really taught me a lot about my basses.  Sure – it takes a while to get good at it…but it is pretty hard to REALLY screw up a bass, and over the long run saves a lot of $$. FWIW – I found that it is best to wait 24 hrs before judging the effectiveness of a truss rod adjustment… — be blessed…bp

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I bought a nice used P-bass about a month ago.  It has recieved little > use, and plays very nicely.  I just sighted down the neck, and it > appears very slightly bowed towards the strings. > Should the neck appear this way?  I have a Les Paul that has the > flattest neck you have ever seen.  Should a bass be different? > Pete Collin

Response:

it’s called relief and every bass (or guitar) must have it otherwise it’s almost unplayable. Have a look at Gary Willis’  pages for an explanation http://www.garywillis.com/pages/bass/bassmanual/setupmanual.html

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I bought a nice used P-bass about a month ago.  It has recieved little > use, and plays very nicely.  I just sighted down the neck, and it > appears very slightly bowed towards the strings. > Should the neck appear this way?  I have a Les Paul that has the > flattest neck you have ever seen.  Should a bass be different? > Pete Collin

Response:

Contary to the belief of many, a bass neck and fongerboad shouldn’t be laser straight.  However, it does have to be stable and in control, with a tiny amount of slope between the nut and the bottom of the fretboard, called ‘relief’.  It’s really a feel adjustment.  If you like the way the thing plays, don’t worry about changing it.  If a string buzzes at seemingly random spots on the neck, you could need a truss rod adjustment.  Under no circumstances do you turn the truss rod more than 1/4 turn at a time. One-eighth (1/8) turn at a time is wise.  After each  turn of the truss rod, re-string, re-tune, whatever it takes, and give the effect of the change a couple of hours to take hold.  Eventhough you may notice a change right off the bat, it may not set in fully right away.  All this is why if you like the bass the way it is, leave it be.  It can be a painstaking process…or relatively easy.  It just depends on the bass. Edward G. — "You don’t always get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get."  –Don King —

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I bought a nice used P-bass about a month ago.  It has recieved little > use, and plays very nicely.  I just sighted down the neck, and it > appears very slightly bowed towards the strings. > Should the neck appear this way?  I have a Les Paul that has the > flattest neck you have ever seen.  Should a bass be different? > Pete Collin

Response:

> I bought a nice used P-bass about a month ago.  It has recieved little > use, and plays very nicely.  I just sighted down the neck, and it > appears very slightly bowed towards the strings. > Should the neck appear this way?  I have a Les Paul that has the > flattest neck you have ever seen.  Should a bass be different? > Pete Collin

Needs a truss rod adjustment. Simple matter. — Neal Pollack The Bad Habit Allstars http://www.badhabitallstars.com Carbondale, CO, USA

Response:

> I bought a nice used P-bass about a month ago.  It has recieved little > use, and plays very nicely.  I just sighted down the neck, and it > appears very slightly bowed towards the strings. > Should the neck appear this way?  I have a Les Paul that has the > flattest neck you have ever seen.  Should a bass be different? > Pete Collin

That’s normal, and desirable, for a bass to have some bow in the neck.  It’s called "relief".  Read the FAQs at altguitarbass.com to learn more.

Response:

I bought a nice used P-bass about a month ago.  It has recieved little use, and plays very nicely.  I just sighted down the neck, and it appears very slightly bowed towards the strings. Should the neck appear this way?  I have a Les Paul that has the flattest neck you have ever seen.  Should a bass be different? Pete Collin

Response:

Adjusting the truss rod question

Question:

> Presuming the bass was set up right at one time, the most common causes of > too much relief are a variation in climactic conditions, in which case it > won’t buzz at the high frets, or if the player put heavier strings on, same > deal.

Absolutely.  You and I agree on that.  However, the original poster was experiencing buzz at the high frets.

Response:

> Presuming the bass was set up right at one time, the most common causes of > too much relief are a variation in climactic conditions, in which case it > won’t buzz at the high frets, or if the player put heavier strings on, > same > deal. > Absolutely.  You and I agree on that.  However, the original poster was > experiencing buzz at the high frets.

Exactly.

Response:

> "When you get fret buzz at the high frets, that’s an indication that your > neck has too much bow (relief).  You need to tighten the truss rod some." > and I thought Frank ought to try raising the saddles instead. > Raising the saddles when the relief is too great may eliminate the buzz, but > at the expense of making the action so high as to be unplayable.

Presuming the bass was set up right at one time, the most common causes of too much relief are a variation in climactic conditions, in which case it won’t buzz at the high frets, or if the player put heavier strings on, same deal.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > If neck has too much relief and strings are too low, buzz will appear > high > > on the neck. > Which is what always happens, as I said above. > "When you get fret buzz at the high frets, that’s an indication that your > neck has too much bow (relief).  You need to tighten the truss rod some." > and I thought Frank ought to try raising the saddles instead.

Not usually. If one part of the neck buzzes and another doesn’t, that is an idication the truss rod isn’t adusted properly. True, raising the action would probably minimize this, but it will have the effect that when you play harder, the high frets will buzz, and the bottom frets won’t. Also, rasing the action might be a problem for someone who is used to the action being lower.

Response:

> "When you get fret buzz at the high frets, that’s an indication that your > neck has too much bow (relief).  You need to tighten the truss rod some." > and I thought Frank ought to try raising the saddles instead.

Raising the saddles when the relief is too great may eliminate the buzz, but at the expense of making the action so high as to be unplayable.  Over the years, this has been one of the most common situations described in this forum.  When there’s too much relief, it causes the action to be too high in the middle of the neck, but right at the end of the neck, it’s low again, because the side view of the neck is like an archery bow.  To get the action low enough at the middle of the neck, you have to lower the saddles to the point where they are almost touching the neck at the tail end.  If the player complains of fret buzz at the tail end of the neck, and you ask if the saddles are almost bottomed out, the answer is almost always, "Yes". Vice-versa, if the player complains that the saddles are bottomed out but the action’s still too high:  "Do you get fret buzz at the tail end of the neck?"  "Yes."  Never seems to fail.  Basses always come from the factory with too much relief, and a lot of players don’t even know that it can be adjusted, they only think of raising the saddles.  A lot of players are just plain afraid to touch the truss rod, so they raise the saddles.  So, you get the archery effect.  Correcting action and playability problems has to start with proper neck relief, you always do that first.

Response:

>>>What does "um" mean, anyway? >It means he’s not trying to jump in your face like some 1/2 wit. >Cautiously addressing something… > Awwright, look, you — just because we’ve already got one guy named Dr. > Smartass in this group doesn’t mean I can’t be one, too.  As a matter of > fact, I’ll be a half-wit smartass.

That was actually a reference to a different "true half-wit" poster who pretends to post to worng news groups.  :-) —    O< (.) (.) /()    ^^

Response:

> Call MusicMakers on South Lamar and ask for Ohlee (O-Lee). > I have a vintage bass and I noticed a buzz on the higher frets.  When > I sight down the neck I notice that it is bowed.  It looks to me like > I need to adjust the truss rod.  My question is… do I do this with > the strings on and tensioned or with the strings off? > Also does anyone have the name/phone number of a good bass guitar > technician in Austin, TX?  I may want to have someone else give the > bass a going over to get it set up properly. > Thanks for any advice. > Frank

Thanks for everyone’s advice.  I guess we’ve all been here before… Frank

Response:

> > What does "um" mean, anyway? > It means he’s not trying to jump in your face like some 1/2 wit. > Cautiously addressing something…

Awwright, look, you — just because we’ve already got one guy named Dr. Smartass in this group doesn’t mean I can’t be one, too.  As a matter of fact, I’ll be a half-wit smartass.

Response:

Okay, no ums this time. > If neck has too much relief and strings are too high, there will be no buzz > anywhere.

But, this never happens, because the player will not tolerate the extremely high action this creates.  The player will instinctively lower the saddles to lower the action.  If there’s too much relief, the player can never get the saddles low enough to get the action he wants — but, the end result will be that there will be fret buzz, and it will come from the highest end of the neck.  This happens all the time, as demonstrated by the common posts here — "I’ve got my saddles bottomed all the way out against the bridge, but my action’s still too high."  Too much neck relief. > If neck has too much relief and strings are too low, buzz will appear high > on the neck.

Which is what always happens, as I said above. > If neck has correct relief and strings are too low, buzz will appear high on > the neck.

No, the buzz will be all over the neck. > If neck has insufficient relief and strings are too high, buzz appears

low. No, if there’s too little relief, the buzz will be at the lower frets, even if the strings are at the correct height. > If neck has insufficient relief and strings are too low, notes totally choke > out.

This is what happens here in Wisconsin every spring, as the humidity rises after the dry winter.  You take out a bass after it’s been sitting a while, and all the strings are plastered flat against the frets.

Response:

> If neck has too much relief and strings are too low, buzz will appear high > on the neck. > Which is what always happens, as I said above.

"When you get fret buzz at the high frets, that’s an indication that your neck has too much bow (relief).  You need to tighten the truss rod some." and I thought Frank ought to try raising the saddles instead.

Response:

I have a vintage bass and I noticed a buzz on the higher frets.  When I sight down the neck I notice that it is bowed.  It looks to me like I need to adjust the truss rod.  My question is… do I do this with the strings on and tensioned or with the strings off? Also does anyone have the name/phone number of a good bass guitar technician in Austin, TX?  I may want to have someone else give the bass a going over to get it set up properly. Thanks for any advice. Frank

Response:

>I have a vintage bass and I noticed a buzz on the higher frets.  When >I sight down the neck I notice that it is bowed.  It looks to me like >I need to adjust the truss rod.  My question is… do I do this with >the strings on and tensioned or with the strings off? >Also does anyone have the name/phone number of a good bass guitar >technician in Austin, TX?  I may want to have someone else give the >bass a going over to get it set up properly. >Thanks for any advice. >Frank

Keith and Robert at The Custom Shop, right around the corner from Ray Hennig’s, do good work. They handle basses and guitars, but they’re bassists first from what I hear. Most of the stores around town have someone who can do this, but the Custom Shop’s been around for awhile. Check ‘em out here: http://bassland.home.texas.net Since it’s vintage (and likely worth alot), I’d give strong consideration to having a pro do this, ESPECIALLY if you’ve never done it before.

Response:

> I have a vintage bass and I noticed a buzz on the higher frets.  When > I sight down the neck I notice that it is bowed.  It looks to me like > I need to adjust the truss rod.  My question is… do I do this with > the strings on and tensioned or with the strings off?

Depends.  With some vintage basses, you have to remove the neck to adjust the truss rod, so… With basses where you can access the truss rod without removing the body, you usually leave the tension on.  If you are flattening the neck, and the nut is pretty stiff, you should loosen the strings to see if it helps.  If it’s a vintage Rickenbacker, I believe you move the neck by external (hand) pressure, then tighten the nut when you have the preferred bow achieved. For more info: http://www.altguitarbass.com/faq.asp#Setup http://members.rogers.com/dbl-bass/setups.htm http://archive.bassplayer.com/gear/specs.shtml http://www.mrgearhead.net/faq/basssetup.html http://garywillis.com/pages/bass/bassmanual/setupmanual.html http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/6203/page33.html http://www.harmony-central.com/Bass/setups.txt http://sadowsky.com/media/pdf/technical/bp0999_bass_setup.pdf http://www.fretnotguitarrepair.com/ElectricGuitarRepair.htm If you’re unsure, find a pro. —    O> /()    ^^

Response:

I always release the string pressure and adjust about a quarter turn at a time.  It is not hard to overadjust and put a back bow in the neck.  A back bow is sometimes impossible to get out without removing or sliding the fretboard, a real bummer and expensive.  I only remove the neck if there is no other way to get at the trussrod. Kirk

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I have a vintage bass and I noticed a buzz on the higher frets.  When > I sight down the neck I notice that it is bowed.  It looks to me like > I need to adjust the truss rod.  My question is… do I do this with > the strings on and tensioned or with the strings off? > Also does anyone have the name/phone number of a good bass guitar > technician in Austin, TX?  I may want to have someone else give the > bass a going over to get it set up properly. > Thanks for any advice. > Frank

Response:

> I have a vintage bass and I noticed a buzz on the higher frets.  When > I sight down the neck I notice that it is bowed.  It looks to me like > I need to adjust the truss rod.  My question is… do I do this with > the strings on and tensioned or with the strings off?

When you get fret buzz at the high frets, that’s an indication that your neck has too much bow (relief).  You need to tighten the truss rod some. Makes no difference if you do it with the strings on and tensioned or not (in my experience), but if you make the adjustment with the strings tensioned, be sure to re-tune the bass before checking the relief again. Make your adjustments in quarter-turn increments, and check after each adjustment.

Response:

> When you get fret buzz at the high frets, that’s an indication > that your neck has too much bow (relief).

Um, actually I think it means your saddles are too low.

Response:

> > When you get fret buzz at the high frets, that’s an indication > that your neck has too much bow (relief). > Um, actually I think it means your saddles are too low.

Um, when you have the correct relief in your neck, if the saddles are too low, you will get fret buzz uniformly across the entire neck.  Um, if the relief is too little, or is even negative, then you get buzz at the head end of the neck.  Um, if the relief is too great, you will have to lower your saddles way down, sometimes bottomed all the way out.  Um, if your saddles are all the way down, and your action is still too high, it means you have too much neck relief.  Um, if that is the case, and you adjust your neck relief properly, you will have to raise your saddles, because the strings will be lying flat on the neck. What does "um" mean, anyway?

Response:

Call MusicMakers on South Lamar and ask for Ohlee (O-Lee).

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I have a vintage bass and I noticed a buzz on the higher frets.  When > I sight down the neck I notice that it is bowed.  It looks to me like > I need to adjust the truss rod.  My question is… do I do this with > the strings on and tensioned or with the strings off? > Also does anyone have the name/phone number of a good bass guitar > technician in Austin, TX?  I may want to have someone else give the > bass a going over to get it set up properly. > Thanks for any advice. > Frank

Response:

> > When you get fret buzz at the high frets, that’s an indication > > that your neck has too much bow (relief). > Um, actually I think it means your saddles are too low. > Um, when you have the correct relief in your neck, if the saddles are too > low, you will get fret buzz uniformly across the entire neck.

No. If everything is set right when playing harder than normal, buzz is uniform. If neck has too much relief and strings are too high, there will be no buzz anywhere. If neck has too much relief and strings are too low, buzz will appear high on the neck. If neck has correct relief and strings are too low, buzz will appear high on the neck. If neck has insufficient relief and strings are too high, buzz appears low. If neck has insufficient relief and strings are too low, notes totally choke out.

Response:

> What does "um" mean, anyway?

It means he’s not trying to jump in your face like some 1/2 wit. Cautiously addressing something… —    O> /()    ^^

Response:

ARCHERY CHAT ROOM

Question:

Does anyone know of a great chat room to discuss archery info. Thanks

Response:

> Does anyone know of a great chat room to discuss archery info. > Thanks

Eders.com Tom — These Five Words In My Head Scream "Are We Having Fun Yet?" And the answer is …. definitely!

Response:

Not a chat room but you should check out www.archery-forum.com as it is a great site

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Does anyone know of a great chat room to discuss archery info. > Thanks

Response:

Handycaps

Question:

Does anyone have a information on working out handicaps or can tell me a link to a site with info. Hands

Response:

> Does anyone have a information on working out handicaps or can tell me a > link to a site with info. > Hands

If you are in the UK, unfortunately that’ll be a fiver to buy the GNAS handicap tables, and probably another eight quid to buy the rules of shooting. Tom — These Five Words In My Head Scream "Are We Having Fun Yet?" And the answer is …. definitely!

Response:

The handicap tables for Archery Australia are freely downloadable at http://archeryaustralia.bizland.com/aa_rules.htm I don’t know how GNAS works out their tables, but with any luck they may be the same… Shawn – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Does anyone have a information on working out handicaps or can tell me a >link to a site with info. >Hands > If you are in the UK, unfortunately that’ll be a fiver to buy the GNAS > handicap tables, and probably another eight quid to buy the rules of > shooting. > Tom

Response:

> The handicap tables for Archery Australia are freely > downloadable at http://archeryaustralia.bizland.com/aa_rules.htm

I had a look at the site thinking to compare with my GNAS tables but it did not work Austrailians appear to have a rating system so the better you score the higher your rating where GNAS use a handicap (higher score lower handicap) they also shoot different rounds (apart from FITA rounds). I would be willing to look up GNAS handicaps for people but will not type the tables in due to copyright (nothing to do with typing in 20 odd pages on numbers honest <G>) Carl Sans Sig

Response:

Carl Thanks for the offer I wanted to find out more information on how to work out the handicap. What information I need to have like last three scores? Hands

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The handicap tables for Archery Australia are freely > downloadable at http://archeryaustralia.bizland.com/aa_rules.htm > I had a look at the site thinking to compare with my GNAS tables but it did > not work Austrailians appear to have a rating system so the better you score > the higher your rating where GNAS use a handicap (higher score lower > handicap) they also shoot different rounds (apart from FITA rounds). > I would be willing to look up GNAS handicaps for people but will not type > the tables in due to copyright (nothing to do with typing in 20 odd pages on > numbers honest <G>) > Carl > Sans Sig

Response:

>Carl >Thanks for the offer >I wanted to find out more information on how to work out the handicap. >What information I need to have like last three scores?

If my memory serves me, the GNAS handicap system works as follows: Take the handicap rating of your scores this season, take the best three handicaps and calculate your current handicap rating as follows: current hcap = (hcap1 + hcap2 + hcap3) / 3 When you shoot a handicap score which is better than your current handicap rating, recalculate your handicape as follows: current hcap = (current hcap + new hcap) / 2 Hope that helps! — Murray

Response:

Murray How do I work out my current Handicap?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Carl >Thanks for the offer >I wanted to find out more information on how to work out the handicap. >What information I need to have like last three scores? > If my memory serves me, the GNAS handicap system works as follows: > Take the handicap rating of your scores this season, take the best > three handicaps and calculate your current handicap rating as follows: > current hcap = (hcap1 + hcap2 + hcap3) / 3 > When you shoot a handicap score which is better than your current > handicap rating, recalculate your handicape as follows: > current hcap = (current hcap + new hcap) / 2 > Hope that helps! > — > Murray

Response:

As Murray said you start the season by taking your best three rounds from last season (if this is your first season then take the first three) then average, rounding up, each time you score higher. Problem being of course what is your best 3 without knowing your handicap how does one compare different rounds this is why I bought the tables myself. Carl Sans Sig

Response:

>How do I work out my current Handicap?

I’m not sure I understand your question. You need to get the handicap tables from GNAS and use those to calculate it as I stated in my previous EMail. If not using the GNAS tables (e.g. the Australian system), then it’s probably best to use their rating system which you should be able to find on their website somewhere.

Response:

Source for the "Holland" tab in the USA?

Question:

Anyone know of a source for the Holland tab (A&F, I think) and replacement faces in the USA or via mail order? Thanks in advance. — Arlington, Massachusetts USA

Response:

Hi Marty, Have you tried to ask A&F for resellers in the US ? They have a website now. Gr. Sander

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Anyone know of a source for the Holland tab (A&F, I think) and > replacement faces in the USA or via mail order? > Thanks in advance. > — > Arlington, Massachusetts USA

Response:

I had trouble finding the Holland so I switched to the Cavalier … hated it, then found the Angel Tab at Lancaster Archery. I would try that tab… almost the same as the Holland but the shelf is metal and the finger spacer is soft… I love it! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi Marty, > Have you tried to ask A&F for resellers in the US ? They have a website now. > Gr. > Sander > Anyone know of a source for the Holland tab (A&F, I think) and > replacement faces in the USA or via mail order? > Thanks in advance. > — > Arlington, Massachusetts USA

Response:

FS: WinAct Riser and #42 Medium Limbs

Question:

I have a pretty WinAct riser and limbs for sale, it’s treated me well for over a year or so but I just don’t have the time to shoot anymore =( The riser is the Red/Yellow splash color and comes with the WinAct rest. The limbs are #42 by WinAct, Carbon Wood limbs, there is a small scratch on the top limb but otherwise just normal wear and tear and in good shape. This is a great competition riser / limb combination. For pictures please check out http://photos.yahoo.com/krarcher Han Su Kim

Response:

don’t forget that you can also post a picture and advert on the tsaa "fer sale" message board – http://www.texasarchery.org/cgi-bin/mb/mb.cgi And I cain’t believe yew are really gonna give it up!  say it ain’t so, santie claus! Why not just mothball them for awhile and see if your schedule doesn’t change or your motivations evolve? > I have a pretty WinAct riser and limbs for sale, it’s treated me well for > over a year or so but I just don’t have the time to shoot anymore =( > The riser is the Red/Yellow splash color and comes with the WinAct rest. > The limbs are #42 by WinAct, Carbon Wood limbs, there is a small scratch on > the top limb but otherwise just normal wear and tear and in good shape. > This is a great competition riser / limb combination. > For pictures please check out http://photos.yahoo.com/krarcher > Han Su Kim

– TexARC publicize the sport of Archery! http://www.texasarchery.org Outgoing messages scanned for viruses by Nortons AV 2002

Response:

Thanks for the words and I’ll still try to involve myself with the sport but just for a while as a fan spectator and supporter more than a participator =) Aww *sniff sniff* you make me wanna go buy a car and hit the range =)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> don’t forget that you can also post a picture and advert on the tsaa "fer sale" > message board – http://www.texasarchery.org/cgi-bin/mb/mb.cgi > And I cain’t believe yew are really gonna give it up!  say it ain’t so, santie > claus! > Why not just mothball them for awhile and see if your schedule doesn’t change > or your motivations evolve? > I have a pretty WinAct riser and limbs for sale, it’s treated me well for > over a year or so but I just don’t have the time to shoot anymore =( > The riser is the Red/Yellow splash color and comes with the WinAct rest. > The limbs are #42 by WinAct, Carbon Wood limbs, there is a small scratch on > the top limb but otherwise just normal wear and tear and in good shape. > This is a great competition riser / limb combination. > For pictures please check out http://photos.yahoo.com/krarcher > Han Su Kim > — > TexARC > publicize the sport of Archery! > http://www.texasarchery.org > Outgoing messages scanned for viruses by Nortons AV 2002

Response:

Finger shoot a 75% let-off compound?

Question:

The bow is 40" so thats not a problem for me. I’m more curious about getting a clean release while only holding 20 pounds or less. Is anyone shooting these bows with fingers? I’d sure like to switch over if its not going to be a problem. I think it would help with my traditional shooting if I got my compound shooting as similar as possible.

Response:

Sure, once you get used to the high let-off and low holding weight, there is not much difference. It will take a while to adapt, so don’t get discouraged. Stick with it. 40" axle to axle is short for fingers, in my opinion. 44 to 46 inches is better.

Response:

> 40" axle to axle is short for fingers, in my opinion. 44 to 46 inches is > better.

I’d agree, but I have a 40" bow.  The pinch is really not bad once past let-off. (I think the riser is long enough that its not a problem, I’ll have to try it and see)  I do miss my old 46" Laserflight some days…. Thanks for the input!

Response:

I shoot a 80 % let off bow with a finger tab and do not have a problem with a clean release. I think the big problem in a compound is finding a bow that is long 40 inch is about the right length for a finger shooter otherwise it is hard on your fingers….

Response:

I shoot a 40" bow using gloved fingers.  I started with 65% letoff and went to 50% letoff to try and improve my release.  It made no difference so I went back to 65%, but I do draw into the back wall of the draw curve before releasing the arrow.  I think it improves the crispness of my release.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The bow is 40" so thats not a problem for me. I’m more curious about getting > a clean release while only holding 20 pounds or less. > Is anyone shooting these bows with fingers? > I’d sure like to switch over if its not going to be a problem. I think it > would help with my traditional shooting if I got my compound shooting as > similar as possible.

Response:

A lot depends on the quality of your shot. When beginning to shoot a low poundage bow the tendancy is to ease up a bit and actually shoot a dead release or a fake back tension shot. That’s the reason most shooters try to shoot at the wall, they focus on their form and follow thru at that point. — Cathy Korby Archery Coach

Response:

> A lot depends on the quality of your shot. > When beginning to shoot a low poundage bow > the tendancy is to ease up a bit and actually shoot > a dead release or a fake back tension shot. > That’s the reason most shooters try to shoot at the > wall, they focus on their form and follow thru at > that point.

Cathy, I hope your still watching this thread? I tried the finger release with this bow and now know exactly what you posted about. It is hard to keep from creeping with a hard cam.  I did get better results pulling against the wall with a constant finger pressure, then pushing away with the bow arm to increase tension for the release. Shooting with a tab seems to work better than the glove too. Probably because of the limited amount of finger space for a 40" bow. I’d call it a success so far. I am much more comfortable shooting with a finger in my mouth for an anchor instead of using a peep to squint through and  a kisser and a low mechanical release anchor point. My main goals in moving to a manual release was so I could shoot with both eyes open, get a higher anchor and most of all, to develop my natural archery skills rather than my "point and shoot" skills. Something I’ll be able to apply to insinctive shooting of the recurve. Another benefit has been improving on my target panic. !

Response:

elasti-plast for blisters? anyone used it?

Question:

It’s basically stretchable medical adhesive tape. Sticks really well too. Some Pharmacies or Medical Suppliers carry it. I’ve used it to protect finger tips when playing Congas and in Archery. Works really well in those situations, though it is a little thick and will certainly affect your feel on the strings. If it works good for pulling a bow string it should work well for plucking bass strings. Hopefully you’re not pulling them *that* hard….   ;o) Ric > Does anyone have experience or a source for a product called > Elasti-plast? > I read a recommendation in an instructional bass guitar book that > mentioned elasti-plast as a product that can assist in continuing to > play bass with finger blisters. > Anyone used this?  How does it work, is it disposable, how much does > it cost? > — > Todd H. > http://www.toddh.net/

– "Dave…   my mind is going…   I can feel it… my mind is going…"    –HAL 9000 Ric Williams

Response:

Does anyone have experience or a source for a product called Elasti-plast?   I read a recommendation in an instructional bass guitar book that mentioned elasti-plast as a product that can assist in continuing to play bass with finger blisters. Anyone used this?  How does it work, is it disposable, how much does it cost? — Todd H.   http://www.toddh.net/

Response:

> Does anyone have experience or a source for a product called > Elasti-plast?

This could be an American English/UK English problem Elastoplast (UK) = Band Aid (USA) In which case: > Anyone used this?

Yes – not for playing bass though! > How does it work,

Sticks on > is it disposable,

Yes > how much does it cost?

Not much CharlieB

Response:

> > Does anyone have experience or a source for a product called > Elasti-plast? > This could be an American English/UK English problem > Elastoplast (UK) = Band Aid (USA)

Interesting…but, the context in which this was suggested ws from an instructional bass guitar book, and one of the features is that while playing with this product, the tone produced was quite similar to bare fingers, whle retaining a similar feel.  Neither of which would be true with a regular band-aid or similar gauze-pad/tape bandage. My pharmacy was able to find it manufactured by Beirsdorf, but they were unable to provide a good description.  Evidently it comes in two sizes which indicates some sort of strip-like application like a band-aid, but what’s odd is that they came in quantities as small as one…which would indicate an item somewhat fancier than a regular adhesive bandage like a Band Aid.  Hmm.   I send an email to Beirsdor-Jobst and will share any info I can find. I can’t imagine anyone recommending a band-aid or similar item for dealing with blisters on the striking hand of a bass guitar.

Response:

> Does anyone have experience or a source for a product called > Elasti-plast? > I read a recommendation in an instructional bass guitar book that > mentioned elasti-plast as a product that can assist in continuing to > play bass with finger blisters. > Anyone used this?  How does it work, is it disposable, how much does > it cost?

You may want to check out New Skin, a liquid brush on bandage. It may need to be applied between sets, but can do the job in some cases.

Response:

IME bandaids aren’t good for the plucking hand at all.  The friction almost inevitably pulls them off or wrinkles them up, making them useless. I usually get the pluck hand blisters when playing an outside gig (especially by a pool) when the air is really humid.  I think the humidity softens the caluses on my fingers and causes the skin to stick to the strings after playing for awhile. I tried sports wrap and bandaids and finally ended up altering my playing style or just using different fingers.  On one hand (no pun intended) it’s a good exercise.  On the other, altering your line may not be acceptable.  I’m not a set in stone kinda guy, so I don’t mind changing my approach in most cases. Also, try some of that string cleaner/lube that you rub on the strings.. it decreases friction a LOT!  I think it’s called Fast Fret.  Buy your own or your guitarist might accuse you of "bogarting" his fast fret (how do I know this?). One other option to consider is turning up the volume (assuming you have enough headroom) and learning to play with a lighter touch.  Let the amp do the work! I used to have a weird quirk where if I was getting drowned out I’d play harder with my fingers to try and compensate.  This is frustrating and futile.  Now I just turn up. Sometimes I turn up but I forget to play with a light touch, which will inevitably cause your bandmates to turn you back down, at which point you’re back to square one! Headroom abuse! jordan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Does anyone have experience or a source for a product called > > Elasti-plast?

Response:

I have used Super Glue with good success. The skin on the ends of my fingers was cracking from dryness last winter, and Super Glue got me through a number of gigs. It is non-toxic. I believe it was originally developed by the military for emergency use in the field. Naturally, you must be very careful when applying it, and wait for it to dry before you touch anything (including another finger)! I just put a dab on the cut, and let it dry. It might require re-applying between sets. I now keep a tube in my gig bag. Jim Dombrowski – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Does anyone have experience or a source for a product called > Elasti-plast? > I read a recommendation in an instructional bass guitar book that > mentioned elasti-plast as a product that can assist in continuing to > play bass with finger blisters. > Anyone used this?  How does it work, is it disposable, how much does > it cost? > You may want to check out New Skin, a liquid brush on bandage. It may need > to be applied between sets, but can do the job in some cases.

Response:

As far as I can remember, elasti-past, the product is like a medical tape used to application to the skin for sealing cuts and skiking down the  edges of non-adhesive bamdages…

Response:

> As far as I can remember, elasti-past, the product is like a medical > tape used to application to the skin for sealing cuts and sticking down > the  edges of non-adhesive bamdages…

Ah…now that makes sense.  If it’s a roll of medical tape, the quantities and cost would make sense.

Response:

I think it’s a clear "tape", similar to "plastic wrap" you use to cover leftovers with, but thinner, and adhesive, and obviously porus, so air CAN penetrate a bit.  *I think* —  -rob    O>  /( )   ^^

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> As far as I can remember, elasti-past, the product is like a medical > tape used to application to the skin for sealing cuts and sticking down > the  edges of non-adhesive bamdages… > Ah…now that makes sense.  If it’s a roll of medical tape, the > quantities and cost would make sense.

Response:

Gotta be careful though, some people can have a reaction to it. I found that out the hard way when I tried using it to seal a split in the skin next to the corner of a fingernail once. I didn’t think it was very deep but apparently was enough to get some in my system. Just my experience though, I haven’t heard of many others reacting to it. Ric – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I have used Super Glue with good success. The skin on the ends of my fingers > was cracking from dryness last winter, and Super Glue got me through a number > of gigs. It is non-toxic. I believe it was originally developed by the > military for emergency use in the field. Naturally, you must be very careful > when applying it, and wait for it to dry before you touch anything (including > another finger)! > I just put a dab on the cut, and let it dry. It might require re-applying > between sets. I now keep a tube in my gig bag. > Jim Dombrowski > > Does anyone have experience or a source for a product called > > Elasti-plast? > > I read a recommendation in an instructional bass guitar book that > > mentioned elasti-plast as a product that can assist in continuing to > > play bass with finger blisters. > > Anyone used this?  How does it work, is it disposable, how much does > > it cost? > You may want to check out New Skin, a liquid brush on bandage. It may need > to be applied between sets, but can do the job in some cases.

– "Dave…   my mind is going…   I can feel it… my mind is going…"    –HAL 9000 Ric Williams

Response:

I may be gone for some time

Question:

Hello all, Sadly, the time has come to make some major decisions. The results of which are: a: I shall not be seen around these parts until mid June of the space year 2001 b: My website shall not be updated until mid June of the space year 2001. c: If you send me an email, it shall be replied to on a Friday. "Why!?" you may ask. The question? The Leaving Certificate examinations, which, in the good old Republic, basically dictate what you do with the rest of your life. My last exam is Applied Mathematics on June 22nd, so I shall return on the afternoon of that very day. Easy now, Ewan — Ewan Oughton www.archery2k.com

Response:

good luck to you on your examinations. Archeryking "Ewan" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello all, > Sadly, the time has come to make some major decisions. > The results of which are: > a: I shall not be seen around these parts until mid June of the space year > 2001 > b: My website shall not be updated until mid June of the space year 2001. > c: If you send me an email, it shall be replied to on a Friday. > "Why!?" you may ask. The question? The Leaving Certificate examinations, > which, in the good old Republic, basically dictate what you do with the rest > of your life. > My last exam is Applied Mathematics on June 22nd, so I shall return on the > afternoon of that very day. > Easy now, > Ewan > — > Ewan Oughton > www.archery2k.com

Response:

Don’t think of them as exams – think of them as "biscuits" – alot less stressful.   "Ewan" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hello all, > Sadly, the time has come to make some major decisions. > The results of which are: > a: I shall not be seen around these parts until mid June of the space year > 2001 > b: My website shall not be updated until mid June of the space year 2001. > c: If you send me an email, it shall be replied to on a Friday. > "Why!?" you may ask. The question? The Leaving Certificate examinations, > which, in the good old Republic, basically dictate what you do with the rest > of your life. > My last exam is Applied Mathematics on June 22nd, so I shall return on the > afternoon of that very day. > Easy now, > Ewan > — > Ewan Oughton > www.archery2k.com

Response:

Study hard and ace those exams. We will miss you. Jane "Ewan" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello all, > Sadly, the time has come to make some major decisions. > The results of which are: > a: I shall not be seen around these parts until mid June of the space year > 2001 > b: My website shall not be updated until mid June of the space year 2001. > c: If you send me an email, it shall be replied to on a Friday. > "Why!?" you may ask. The question? The Leaving Certificate examinations, > which, in the good old Republic, basically dictate what you do with the rest > of your life. > My last exam is Applied Mathematics on June 22nd, so I shall return on the > afternoon of that very day. > Easy now, > Ewan > — > Ewan Oughton > www.archery2k.com

Response:

FS Hoyt Axis Riser

Question:

For Sale:    1 – Hoyt Axis riser only, right hand, in fade blue, EC    $450 Serious inquiries only.

Response:

Don, Do you still have the Axis for sale? Would you take $375 for it if so? Thanks, and I’m glad to hear that everything is okay health wise. Keep in touch, Seth Spraggins. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > For Sale: >    1 – Hoyt Axis riser only, right hand, in fade blue, EC    $450 > Serious inquiries only.

Response:

Nope it is gone.  What else are you looking for? Don – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Don, Do you still have the Axis for sale? Would you take $375 for it if > so? Thanks, and I’m glad to hear that everything is okay health wise. > Keep in touch, Seth Spraggins. > For Sale: >    1 – Hoyt Axis riser only, right hand, in fade blue, EC    $450 > Serious inquiries only.

Response:

32 to 38 pound winact froma carbon plus long limbs ? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Nope it is gone.  What else are you looking for? > Don > Don, Do you still have the Axis for sale? Would you take $375 for it if > so? Thanks, and I’m glad to hear that everything is okay health wise. > Keep in touch, Seth Spraggins. > > For Sale: > >    1 – Hoyt Axis riser only, right hand, in fade blue, EC    $450 > > Serious inquiries only.

– ARC in Lago Vista, TX GWBush(Agent 005):"And if he continues that, I’m going to tell the nation what I think about him as a human being and a person."-President George H.W. Bush, on the Today show, Aug. 1, 2000 http://www.inetport.com/~arc/1Wire/weather.html

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Nope it is gone.  What else are you looking for? >Don > Don, Do you still have the Axis for sale? Would you take $375 for it if > so? Thanks, and I’m glad to hear that everything is okay health wise. > Keep in touch, Seth Spraggins. > > For Sale: > >    1 – Hoyt Axis riser only, right hand, in fade blue, EC    $450 > > Serious inquiries only.

SOLD

Response:

I’d like to find a set 38-42# long carbon limbs ;0) Archeryking

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> 32 to 38 pound winact froma carbon plus long limbs ? > Nope it is gone.  What else are you looking for? > Don > > Don, Do you still have the Axis for sale? Would you take $375 for it if > > so? Thanks, and I’m glad to hear that everything is okay health wise. > > Keep in touch, Seth Spraggins. > > > For Sale: > > >    1 – Hoyt Axis riser only, right hand, in fade blue, EC    $450 > > > Serious inquiries only. > — > ARC in Lago Vista, TX > GWBush(Agent 005):"And if he continues that, I’m going to tell the nation what I > think about him as a human being and a person."-President George H.W. Bush, on > the Today show, Aug. 1, 2000 > http://www.inetport.com/~arc/1Wire/weather.html

Response:

> I’d like to find a set 38-42# long carbon limbs ;0)

Ebay has a set of limbs listed now. wPm — S & B Enterprises                     Sunland, CA ICQ 7349522 …the mountains are calling and I must go… <J.Muir>    Do I look old enough to retire? Well I did!  <Buffalo>

Response: