achery resale shops

Question:

Hey all- I’m looking to get back into target archery (15 years ago…) and wanted to know if there are any stores that deal in used bows, online or in Southern California.  Alternately, is there a main/popular "for sale" online site? Thanks, Q. Frost

Response:

Here are a few online sites: eBay Archery section (don’t laugh, the best source I know of if you know your equipment or seller) www.texasarchery.org For Sale page http://www.azarchery.com/index.php3?page=for_sale.htm Arizona State Archery For Sale page http://chicagolandjoad.org/Used%20Eq.htm Chicagoland JOAD For Sale page www.archerytalk.com Classifieds page (mostly compound stuff) Norm

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hey all- > I’m looking to get back into target archery (15 years ago…) and > wanted to know if there are any stores that deal in used bows, online > or in Southern California.  Alternately, is there a main/popular "for > sale" online site? > Thanks, Q. Frost

Response:

Try Pat Norris – just search for "Norris Archery" in Yahoo or whatever. The guy’s a gent and is easy to deal with even if, like me, you live in England! J. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hey all- > I’m looking to get back into target archery (15 years ago…) and > wanted to know if there are any stores that deal in used bows, online > or in Southern California.  Alternately, is there a main/popular "for > sale" online site? > Thanks, Q. Frost

Response:

Thanks for the tips!  - Quentin

Response:

recurve string

Question:

I have a recurve bow and the string appears to come out of the grooves at the ends when i draw it. Does this mean the bow is warped. Is there anything i can do about it.

Response:

Check your limbs with some limb gauges or with a mark on the center of the limbs (on tape of course-don’t mark on the limbs themselves).  Make the mark about the middle of the limbs on the string side.  Your string should line up with the center of the limbs and with the center of the riser.  What kind of riser and limbs do you have? Norm

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I have a recurve bow and the string appears to come out of the grooves at the > ends when i draw it. Does this mean the bow is warped. Is there anything i can > do about it.

Response:

The bow (browning) is all wood and the limbs are laminated. There is a groove in the centre of the limbs at the end. The string doesn’t stay within the groove.

Response:

I don’t know anything about that bow myself.  Did you get a chance to make the checks I mentioned?  There are other folks here that know waaaay more than I do ’bout these things, but you need to check the limb straightness the way I described.  There are other checks to make but start with those. Norm

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The bow (browning) is all wood and the limbs are laminated. There is a groove > in the centre of the limbs at the end. The string doesn’t stay within the > groove.

Response:

Do you mean it doesn’t stay there when the bow is drawn? Or when it’s not drawn? I’d *expect* the string to be out of the groove (more or less) when the bow is drawn, unless it is way too long. I’d expect the string to sit nicely in the groove when it’s not drawn, unless it is way too short. The easiest way to tell whether the string is right, is to check the bracing height – see if it is in the range suggested by the manufacturer. If the bracing height is way too low, the string is too long. If it’s way too high, the string is too short. Just over or under can probably be adjusted by (un)twisting the string, depending on how many twists it’s carrying already… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > The bow (browning) is all wood and the limbs are laminated. There is a groove > in the centre of the limbs at the end. The string doesn’t stay within the > groove.

Response:

Sounds like your limbs are twisted a little.  I’ve had success massaging them back by applying heat (hair dryer or hot tap water, not too much) and gently twisting them back in line.  Take your time and check for alignment often.  Then let them sit for a while and check again.  Don’t rush. Richard Kawamura NFAA Life Member

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The bow (browning) is all wood and the limbs are laminated. There is a groove > in the centre of the limbs at the end. The string doesn’t stay within the > groove.

Response:

Is it me, or does this question seem to be getting odd answers? Mr Crankbait (!) If you have a correctly strung recurve with detachable limbs i.e. a "takedown" type regular bow, when it is strung you will find the string lies in the grooves at the limb ends, just separating from the limb where the groove ends and the limb curves away. When you draw it the string it comes right away from the limb and may make an angle of around 90 degrees with the limb tip…this is normal. If the string does not align in the groove when undrawn then your limbs could be warped, or the limb pocket adjusters (if you have them) could be set badly. Warped limbs can be fixed but you need some expertise and a bucket of hot water  (not recommended). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The bow (browning) is all wood and the limbs are laminated. There is a > groove > in the centre of the limbs at the end. The string doesn’t stay within the > groove.

Response:

Nope, it’s not you. I think it’s just a case of people making assumptions – "he can’t mean that, he must mean…". Dangerous thing to do. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Is it me, or does this question seem to be getting odd answers? > Mr Crankbait (!) If you have a correctly strung recurve with detachable > limbs i.e. a "takedown" type regular bow, when it is strung you will find > the string lies in the grooves at the limb ends, just separating from the > limb where the groove ends and the limb curves away. > When you draw it the string it comes right away from the limb and may make > an angle of around 90 degrees with the limb tip…this is normal. > If the string does not align in the groove when undrawn then your limbs > could be warped, or the limb pocket adjusters (if you have them) could be > set badly. Warped limbs can be fixed but you need some expertise and a > bucket of hot water  (not recommended). > > The bow (browning) is all wood and the limbs are laminated. There is a >  groove > > in the centre of the limbs at the end. The string doesn’t stay within >  the > > groove.

Response:

personally, I think perhaps he is just gripping the bow *a lot*.   GDRLH bravado: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Is it me, or does this question seem to be getting odd answers? >Mr Crankbait (!) If you have a correctly strung recurve with detachable >limbs i.e. a "takedown" type regular bow, when it is strung you will find >the string lies in the grooves at the limb ends, just separating from the >limb where the groove ends and the limb curves away. >When you draw it the string it comes right away from the limb and may make >an angle of around 90 degrees with the limb tip…this is normal. >If the string does not align in the groove when undrawn then your limbs >could be warped, or the limb pocket adjusters (if you have them) could be >set badly. Warped limbs can be fixed but you need some expertise and a >bucket of hot water  (not recommended). >>The bow (browning) is all wood and the limbs are laminated. There is a >groove >>in the centre of the limbs at the end. The string doesn’t stay within >the >>groove.

Response:

personally, I think perhaps he is just gripping the bow *a lot*.   GDRLH Hi Tex! Er, GDRLH (God Does Read Large Headers) ???

Response:

> personally, I think perhaps he is just gripping the bow *a lot*.   GDRLH > Hi Tex! Er, GDRLH (God Does Read Large Headers) ???

Knowing my mate Ron, "Grinnin, Ducking & Running Like Hell!" HTH!

Response:

> personally, I think perhaps he is just gripping the bow *a lot*.   GDRLH > Hi Tex! Er, GDRLH (God Does Read Large Headers) ???

Grinnin, Duckin, Runnin Lahk Hell. 7om

Response:

> personally, I think perhaps he is just gripping the bow *a lot*.   GDRLH > Hi Tex! Er, GDRLH (God Does Read Large Headers) ??? > Grinnin, Duckin, Runnin Lahk Hell. > 7om

You do the accent better than I do! (Plaster’s off! Training bow on Sunday!)

Response:

> > Grinnin, Duckin, Runnin Lahk Hell. > 7om > You do the accent better than I do! > (Plaster’s off! Training bow on Sunday!)

Lucky man. I’m off to Dundee, allegedly for a competition. I suspect it will devolve into the usual thing of a bit of archery mixed with a lot of drinking and envy of Edinburgh, but hey. How long before you can get back to a proper weight bow? 7om

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Grinnin, Duckin, Runnin Lahk Hell. > > 7om > You do the accent better than I do! > (Plaster’s off! Training bow on Sunday!) > Lucky man. I’m off to Dundee, allegedly for a competition. I suspect it will > devolve into the usual thing of a bit of archery mixed with a lot of > drinking and envy of Edinburgh, but hey. > How long before you can get back to a proper weight bow?

TBD mate. We’ll see how it goes. I got back into swimming as well this week, and boy that was ……challenging! Wanna see the x-rays?

Response:

> > How long before you can get back to a proper weight bow? > TBD mate. We’ll see how it goes. I got back into swimming as well this week, > and boy that was ……challenging! > Wanna see the x-rays?

If they’re the sort of thing with large fragments of bone everywhere, definitely not. 7om

Response:

> > How long before you can get back to a proper weight bow? > TBD mate. We’ll see how it goes. I got back into swimming as well this > week, > and boy that was ……challenging! > Wanna see the x-rays? > If they’re the sort of thing with large fragments of bone everywhere, > definitely not.

LOL! They’re really jolly interesting in an abstract sort of way!

Response:

managed to post: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > > How long before you can get back to a proper weight bow? > > TBD mate. We’ll see how it goes. I got back into swimming as well this > week, > > and boy that was ……challenging! > > Wanna see the x-rays? > If they’re the sort of thing with large fragments of bone everywhere, > definitely not. >LOL! They’re really jolly interesting in an abstract sort of way!

C’mon then Pete – where’s the URL?    Keep it between the ditches                                                HooDooWitch          

Response:

grinnin’, duckin’, runnin’ lahk hell    :) bravado: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >personally, I think perhaps he is just gripping the bow *a lot*.   GDRLH >Hi Tex! Er, GDRLH (God Does Read Large Headers) ???

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > managed to post: message >> > > How long before you can get back to a proper weight bow? >> > TBD mate. We’ll see how it goes. I got back into swimming as well this >> week, >> > and boy that was ……challenging! >> > Wanna see the x-rays? >> If they’re the sort of thing with large fragments of bone everywhere, >> definitely not. >LOL! They’re really jolly interesting in an abstract sort of way! > C’mon then Pete – where’s the URL?

www.petersamuels.co.uk

Response:

>Lucky man. I’m off to Dundee, allegedly for a competition. I suspect it will >devolve into the usual thing of a bit of archery mixed with a lot of >drinking and envy of Edinburgh, but hey.

Damn… he sneaked through the border controls ;o) Must’ve been due to that nicely camoufladged bow! Couldn’t even get the judge to tell him his bow as overweight )

Response:

managed to post: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> managed to post: >message > >> > Wanna see the x-rays? > >> If they’re the sort of thing with large fragments of bone everywhere, > >> definitely not. > >LOL! They’re really jolly interesting in an abstract sort of way! > C’mon then Pete – where’s the URL? >www.petersamuels.co.uk

Cool. Is that wire or graffitti on the bottom image?    Keep it between the ditches                                                HooDooWitch          

Response:

> grinnin’, duckin’, runnin’ lahk hell    :)

Great! I got it to the accent – although I think I missed some punctuation… 7om

Response:

>Lucky man. I’m off to Dundee, allegedly for a competition. I suspect it will >devolve into the usual thing of a bit of archery mixed with a lot of >drinking and envy of Edinburgh, but hey. > Damn… he sneaked through the border controls ;o) Must’ve been due to > that nicely camoufladged bow! > Couldn’t even get the judge to tell him his bow as overweight )

It was FITA legal. They let you have up to 60#, and it was. 60#. On the dot (and second attempt.) And you are now the official Scottish Equipment Jinx. I’ll see if I can sort out something saying that you can put on your desk. 7om

Response:

>It was FITA legal. They let you have up to 60#, and it was. 60#. On the dot >(and second attempt.)

And you weren’t worried in the slightest (was that a bunch of allen keys in your pocket, or were you just pleased to see me . >And you are now the official Scottish Equipment Jinx. I’ll see if I can sort >out something saying that you can put on your desk.

MMMmeeeeeee? Nah… My equipment is just fine )

Response:

Archery PDA software for pocket PC

Question:

Hi all. I fell down the stairs & broke my bowarm (elbow joint) So I purchased a PDA to have something to play with. I notice that all the software out there is for a Palm. Is there any for a Pocket PC? Regards Pete

Response:

> Hi all. > I fell down the stairs & broke my bowarm (elbow joint) > So I purchased a PDA to have something to play with. > I notice that all the software out there is for a Palm. > Is there any for a Pocket PC? > Regards > Pete

Not that I’m aware of – there’s TargetPlot and AAPalm for the Palm, and I can’t think of any other PDA archery software. Of course, you could just get a Palm… – there’s a Palm V on eBay for a less than ridiculous amount at the moment. Hope your arm gets better sharpish, or at least in time for outdoor season. 7om

Response:

Well… I came across this one (if your Spanish is any good…) http://perso.wanadoo.es/fernandodediego/info.html#_Toc32893858 but I can’t tell if this is a live page. I don’t know if any of the Java stuff around can be made to run on Wince – it might be worth a try (I think both Sun and IBM have VMs which run on PDA platforms). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hi all. > I fell down the stairs & broke my bowarm (elbow joint) > So I purchased a PDA to have something to play with. > I notice that all the software out there is for a Palm. > Is there any for a Pocket PC? > Regards > Pete

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi all. > I fell down the stairs & broke my bowarm (elbow joint) > So I purchased a PDA to have something to play with. > I notice that all the software out there is for a Palm. > Is there any for a Pocket PC? > Regards > Pete > Not that I’m aware of – there’s TargetPlot and AAPalm for the Palm, and I > can’t think of any other PDA archery software. > Of course, you could just get a Palm… – there’s a Palm V on eBay for a > less than ridiculous amount at the moment. > Hope your arm gets better sharpish, or at least in time for outdoor

season. Thanks mate. I’m out pf plaster at the end of the month, thanks to the metalwork thats still in there! (yep, I made a real mess of it!) Then on with the physio. (the really annoying thing is that all of my hobbies (and chores, thinking about it) rely on 2 good arms!) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> 7om

Response:

Shallow or Deep Hook?

Question:

<sigh> and not a little derring-do: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->http://margo……l?sagibb >Hi! >Where can I find these Sage Boards everyone is talking about? There seems >to >be a wealth of knowlegde hiding there, waiting for me to be read! >menno >>Thanks for that great advice Ed.  Coincidently I have just been reading >some >>of the Sage Boards archives (file 31 I think it was) and stumbled upon a >>discussion of finger problems, finger tab and finger wraps.  Somewhere >in >>those discussions someone mentioned the same thing, draw elbow position. >I >>tried some shots where I purposefully shot with my elbow in different >>positions.  I was surprised at the results.  I did notice that the >string >>did slip on my index finger more readily when I dropped my elbow.  There >>were also differences in where my shots hit the bale.  So I’m gonna work >on >>my elbow and try not to let the string move on my fingers during the >draw >>and anchor. >>I also saw in the archives where many recurve shooters are indeed using >a >>deep hook. >>Norm >>>If your problem is only on the index finger, the problem is most >>>likely your elbow being too high at anchor.  Try using the deep hook, >>>roll the hand verticle and make sure you keep the elbow as level as >>>possible. >>>Ed DeBee >>>NAA Instructor >>>>I’m having the age-old problem of sore fingers.  Actually it is only >my >>>>index finger on my string hand.  I changed from a shallow hook (1st >>knuckle) >>>>to a deep hook (between 1st and 2nd joints) for a more relaxed hand >about >>2 >>>>weeks ago, and it is wreaking havoc on my finger.  I’m going to try >some >>of >>>>the recommended wraps to relieve the problem but was curious what >most >>>>recurve shooters use: shallow or deep hook? >>>>Norm >>>Ed DeBee

Response:

http://margo.student.utwente.nl/cgi-bin/bb/bb.pl?sagibb

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi! > Where can I find these Sage Boards everyone is talking about? There seems to > be a wealth of knowlegde hiding there, waiting for me to be read! > menno > Thanks for that great advice Ed.  Coincidently I have just been reading > some > of the Sage Boards archives (file 31 I think it was) and stumbled upon a > discussion of finger problems, finger tab and finger wraps.  Somewhere in > those discussions someone mentioned the same thing, draw elbow position. > I > tried some shots where I purposefully shot with my elbow in different > positions.  I was surprised at the results.  I did notice that the string > did slip on my index finger more readily when I dropped my elbow.  There > were also differences in where my shots hit the bale.  So I’m gonna work > on > my elbow and try not to let the string move on my fingers during the draw > and anchor. > I also saw in the archives where many recurve shooters are indeed using a > deep hook. > Norm > > If your problem is only on the index finger, the problem is most > > likely your elbow being too high at anchor.  Try using the deep hook, > > roll the hand verticle and make sure you keep the elbow as level as > > possible. > > Ed DeBee > > NAA Instructor > > >I’m having the age-old problem of sore fingers.  Actually it is only my > > >index finger on my string hand.  I changed from a shallow hook (1st > knuckle) > > >to a deep hook (between 1st and 2nd joints) for a more relaxed hand > about > 2 > > >weeks ago, and it is wreaking havoc on my finger.  I’m going to try > some > of > > >the recommended wraps to relieve the problem but was curious what most > > >recurve shooters use: shallow or deep hook? > > >Norm > > Ed DeBee

Response:

Hi! Where can I find these Sage Boards everyone is talking about? There seems to be a wealth of knowlegde hiding there, waiting for me to be read! menno

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Thanks for that great advice Ed.  Coincidently I have just been reading some > of the Sage Boards archives (file 31 I think it was) and stumbled upon a > discussion of finger problems, finger tab and finger wraps.  Somewhere in > those discussions someone mentioned the same thing, draw elbow position. I > tried some shots where I purposefully shot with my elbow in different > positions.  I was surprised at the results.  I did notice that the string > did slip on my index finger more readily when I dropped my elbow.  There > were also differences in where my shots hit the bale.  So I’m gonna work on > my elbow and try not to let the string move on my fingers during the draw > and anchor. > I also saw in the archives where many recurve shooters are indeed using a > deep hook. > Norm > If your problem is only on the index finger, the problem is most > likely your elbow being too high at anchor.  Try using the deep hook, > roll the hand verticle and make sure you keep the elbow as level as > possible. > Ed DeBee > NAA Instructor > >I’m having the age-old problem of sore fingers.  Actually it is only my > >index finger on my string hand.  I changed from a shallow hook (1st > knuckle) > >to a deep hook (between 1st and 2nd joints) for a more relaxed hand about > 2 > >weeks ago, and it is wreaking havoc on my finger.  I’m going to try some > of > >the recommended wraps to relieve the problem but was curious what most > >recurve shooters use: shallow or deep hook? > >Norm > Ed DeBee

Response:

I have sent you the url privately to avoid getting a bunch of ummm, unwanted traffic up there… seems everytime the URL is posted here on the alts, there is a concommitant rise in rude and loutish behavior on the board.   and not a little derring-do: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Hi! >Where can I find these Sage Boards everyone is talking about? There seems to >be a wealth of knowlegde hiding there, waiting for me to be read! >menno >Thanks for that great advice Ed.  Coincidently I have just been reading >some >of the Sage Boards archives (file 31 I think it was) and stumbled upon a >discussion of finger problems, finger tab and finger wraps.  Somewhere in >those discussions someone mentioned the same thing, draw elbow position. >I >tried some shots where I purposefully shot with my elbow in different >positions.  I was surprised at the results.  I did notice that the string >did slip on my index finger more readily when I dropped my elbow.  There >were also differences in where my shots hit the bale.  So I’m gonna work >on >my elbow and try not to let the string move on my fingers during the draw >and anchor. >I also saw in the archives where many recurve shooters are indeed using a >deep hook. >Norm >>If your problem is only on the index finger, the problem is most >>likely your elbow being too high at anchor.  Try using the deep hook, >>roll the hand verticle and make sure you keep the elbow as level as >>possible. >>Ed DeBee >>NAA Instructor >>>I’m having the age-old problem of sore fingers.  Actually it is only my >>>index finger on my string hand.  I changed from a shallow hook (1st >knuckle) >>>to a deep hook (between 1st and 2nd joints) for a more relaxed hand >about >2 >>>weeks ago, and it is wreaking havoc on my finger.  I’m going to try >some >of >>>the recommended wraps to relieve the problem but was curious what most >>>recurve shooters use: shallow or deep hook? >>>Norm >>Ed DeBee

Response:

Thanks for that great advice Ed.  Coincidently I have just been reading some of the Sage Boards archives (file 31 I think it was) and stumbled upon a discussion of finger problems, finger tab and finger wraps.  Somewhere in those discussions someone mentioned the same thing, draw elbow position.  I tried some shots where I purposefully shot with my elbow in different positions.  I was surprised at the results.  I did notice that the string did slip on my index finger more readily when I dropped my elbow.  There were also differences in where my shots hit the bale.  So I’m gonna work on my elbow and try not to let the string move on my fingers during the draw and anchor. I also saw in the archives where many recurve shooters are indeed using a deep hook. Norm

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> If your problem is only on the index finger, the problem is most > likely your elbow being too high at anchor.  Try using the deep hook, > roll the hand verticle and make sure you keep the elbow as level as > possible. > Ed DeBee > NAA Instructor >I’m having the age-old problem of sore fingers.  Actually it is only my >index finger on my string hand.  I changed from a shallow hook (1st knuckle) >to a deep hook (between 1st and 2nd joints) for a more relaxed hand about 2 >weeks ago, and it is wreaking havoc on my finger.  I’m going to try some of >the recommended wraps to relieve the problem but was curious what most >recurve shooters use: shallow or deep hook? >Norm > Ed DeBee

Response:

If your problem is only on the index finger, the problem is most likely your elbow being too high at anchor.  Try using the deep hook, roll the hand verticle and make sure you keep the elbow as level as possible. Ed DeBee NAA Instructor >I’m having the age-old problem of sore fingers.  Actually it is only my >index finger on my string hand.  I changed from a shallow hook (1st knuckle) >to a deep hook (between 1st and 2nd joints) for a more relaxed hand about 2 >weeks ago, and it is wreaking havoc on my finger.  I’m going to try some of >the recommended wraps to relieve the problem but was curious what most >recurve shooters use: shallow or deep hook? >Norm

Ed DeBee

Response:

> the recommended wraps to relieve the problem but was curious what most > recurve shooters use: shallow or deep hook?

Deep. MA

Response:

Deep every time, shallow makes for a tense hold.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Seems most of my friends shoot from the first crease ie shallow? > I’m having the age-old problem of sore fingers.  Actually it is only my > index finger on my string hand.  I changed from a shallow hook (1st > knuckle) > to a deep hook (between 1st and 2nd joints) for a more relaxed hand about > 2 > weeks ago, and it is wreaking havoc on my finger.  I’m going to try some > of > the recommended wraps to relieve the problem but was curious what most > recurve shooters use: shallow or deep hook? > Norm

Response:

I’m having the age-old problem of sore fingers.  Actually it is only my index finger on my string hand.  I changed from a shallow hook (1st knuckle) to a deep hook (between 1st and 2nd joints) for a more relaxed hand about 2 weeks ago, and it is wreaking havoc on my finger.  I’m going to try some of the recommended wraps to relieve the problem but was curious what most recurve shooters use: shallow or deep hook? Norm

Response:

Seems most of my friends shoot from the first crease ie shallow?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’m having the age-old problem of sore fingers.  Actually it is only my > index finger on my string hand.  I changed from a shallow hook (1st knuckle) > to a deep hook (between 1st and 2nd joints) for a more relaxed hand about 2 > weeks ago, and it is wreaking havoc on my finger.  I’m going to try some of > the recommended wraps to relieve the problem but was curious what most > recurve shooters use: shallow or deep hook? > Norm

Response:

The TSAA is having a fund-raiser by offering an archery SPIRIT DECAL.   2/15/2003 Dear archers and parents of archers, and especially JOAD Instructors and coaches: For a limited time, the Texas State Archery Association is offering a SPIRIT DECAL for archers. You know how there are many vans, suburbans, SUVs, and cars you see which display white decals on the rear windows that show the kid’s name with a sport indicator, such as a soccer ball or a football? Well, now you can spread the image of archery around using a custom-designed archery spirit decal with your kid’s name (or your own) on your car window! There are four separate images, two for male archers and two for female archers, with either compound or recurve bow. You can have your kid’s name added for no additional charge, and if he or she has attained either a state championship or a national championship, Jr. USAT, Jr. World Team, etc., then we will accept your word for that, and you can have that title added as well. These decals are around 6 inches by 7 inches, and cost only $14 each with all proceeds going to the TSAA.   There is a modest $1 fee per address for postage and shipping materials, regardless of how many you buy, so JOAD COACHES, be sure to have all your kids place the order through you and save on postage costs. You can view examples of what the spirit decal will look like at this address: http://texasarchery.org/Photos/Decals/spiritdecals.htm and use the online form to print out your name on the form for ordering. This is a limited time offer – we will accept orders only through March 17, 2003 and your check must accompany your printed order. If you have any questions, feel free to write A.Ron Carmichael, webmaster subscribe to the XFILES JOAD Newsletter by sending an email to   subscribe to the TSAA newsletter by sending an email to  

Response:

Marksman Welbeck limbs

Question:

Antone know where I can get limbs to fit a Marksman Welbeck wooden riser? Steve

Response:

> Antone know where I can get limbs to fit a Marksman Welbeck wooden > riser? > Steve

Try asking KG Archery, http://www.kgarchery.co.uk/index2.html — John

Response:

I tried KG but no luck, thanks anyway Steve

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Antone know where I can get limbs to fit a Marksman Welbeck wooden > riser? > Steve > Try asking KG Archery, http://www.kgarchery.co.uk/index2.html > — > John

Response:

There are  a few places still selling Marksmen limbs. Archery World is one place you could try. http://www.archeryworld.co.uk/acatalog/Marksman_Limbs.html

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I tried KG but no luck, thanks anyway > Steve > > Antone know where I can get limbs to fit a Marksman Welbeck wooden > > riser? > > Steve > Try asking KG Archery, http://www.kgarchery.co.uk/index2.html > — > John

Response:

Went to Archery World, no luck. Anyone got a second hand Marsman Welbeck or M75 or M77 bow they want to sell? Steve

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> There are  a few places still selling Marksmen limbs. Archery World is one > place you could try. > http://www.archeryworld.co.uk/acatalog/Marksman_Limbs.html > I tried KG but no luck, thanks anyway > Steve > > > Antone know where I can get limbs to fit a Marksman Welbeck wooden > > > riser? > > > Steve > > Try asking KG Archery, http://www.kgarchery.co.uk/index2.html > > — > > John

Response:

Determining string length

Question:

Howdy, Just got a couple of fiberglass recurve bows through and auction.  They are low poundage (20-30#) recurve bows, but came without strings.  Is there a rule of thumb I can use in order to get the proper length bow string for these bows so that I can take the wife out shooting? Thanks! Unkel Gilbey

Response:

Make a provisional string of variable length, using the "bowstring knot". Adjust it until the bow looks right, then measure the length. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Howdy, > Just got a couple of fiberglass recurve bows through and auction.  They are > low poundage (20-30#) recurve bows, but came without strings.  Is there a > rule of thumb I can use in order to get the proper length bow string for > these bows so that I can take the wife out shooting? > Thanks! > Unkel Gilbey

Response:

> Howdy, > Just got a couple of fiberglass recurve bows through and auction. > They are > low poundage (20-30#) recurve bows, but came without strings.  Is > there a rule of thumb I can use in order to get the proper length bow > string for these bows so that I can take the wife out shooting? > Thanks! > Unkel Gilbey

The AMO standards give a length of 3" shorter than the length of the bow. See the AMO standards booklet (PDF) for more details. — John

Response:

Address for the AMO Standards: http://www.archerytrade.org/publications/images/AmoStandards.pdf — John

Response:

The effect of Archery on the English Language

Question:

Hi, I am doing a project on the inclusion of Archery related words and sayings into the English language. Does anyone know of a good source of information for this, such as a website or a book. Thanks very much in advance, Joel.

Response:

No, but I can give you some examples – "Point Blank" – in mediaeval times, archery targets sometimes consisted of an earth bank with a small white disc of wood or cloth pinned to it – this was the "pointe blanc" hence point blank. "Having two strings to your bow" – pre-synthetic bowstrings were prone to rot due to being constructed from organic material. The prudent archer always carried at least one spare. "Fast" and "Loose" – a bit spurious this one, but "loose" is the verb used to describe the action of releasing the bowstring, thus projecting the arrow. "Fast" has been used as a command to stop shooting for a very long time. Make of it what you will. I’ve got some more somewhere, which I’ll dig out for you J. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi, > I am doing a project on the inclusion of Archery related words and > sayings into the English language. Does anyone know of a good source of > information for this, such as a website or a book. > Thanks very much in advance, > Joel.

Response:

One non-verbal effect on the english language was the inclusion of the ‘two finger’ gesture of defiance/contempt. This was aimed squarly at the French – who had the habit of chopping off the middle and index fingers of any British archer who was captured! Some areas were designated for archery practice and in populated areas these required protected mounds behind target areas – these were commonly known as butts. There is still oan pen area known a The Butts in Brentford, London coming from this. Numerous pubs are named for archers, green man, robin hood, etc Dave

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi, > I am doing a project on the inclusion of Archery related words and > sayings into the English language. Does anyone know of a good source of > information for this, such as a website or a book. > Thanks very much in advance, > Joel.

Response:

> Hi, > I am doing a project on the inclusion of Archery related words and > sayings into the English language. Does anyone know of a good source of > information for this, such as a website or a book. > Thanks very much in advance, > Joel.

Apparantly the phrase "cock-up", as in "you really did cock that up, didn’t you?" came into being when archers incorrectly nocked the arrow so that the cock feather touched the riser, causing a bad shot when the cock feather strikes the bow, that is, they "cocked-up the shot" — Brian

Response:

The origin of "The Green Man" most probably has little to do with archery. It has closer links with a pagan fertility spirit, although no doubt the name was later associated with Robin Hood et al. One interesting pub name is The Middleton Archer, in Middleton, Greater Manchester. A large contingent of archers from Middleton was present at the battle of Flodden, and are commemorated in a contemporary stained glass window in St. Leonard’s church in the town. The sign at The Middleton Archer is a bronze statue of a very emaciated archer – more of the Middleton men died on campaign of disease and starvation than were likely killed in the battle, and the sign commemorates this. You are correct about butts, though. Anywhere with the name "Butts" was once on or near an archery practice ground. Of course, many occupational and trade names connected with archery survive as modern surnames – Bowyer, Archer, Bowman, Fletcher, Arrowsmith and Stringer being the obvious ones. My mother’s maiden name is Fletcher which is odd considering my absolute fascination with building arrows! J. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> One non-verbal effect on the english language was the inclusion of the ‘two > finger’ gesture of defiance/contempt. > This was aimed squarly at the French – who had the habit of chopping off the > middle and index fingers of any British archer who was captured! > Some areas were designated for archery practice and in populated areas these > required protected mounds behind target areas – these were commonly known as > butts. There is still oan pen area known a The Butts in Brentford, London > coming from this. > Numerous pubs are named for archers, green man, robin hood, etc

Response:

>"Fast" and "Loose" – a bit spurious this one, but "loose" is the verb used >to describe the action of releasing the bowstring, thus projecting the >arrow. "Fast" has been used as a command to stop shooting for a very long >time. Make of it what you will.

An archer ‘loose-ing’ after having been told to ‘hold fast’ is putting others in danger, i.e. ‘playing fast and loose’ with them. — Bob Unitt (UK)

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi, > I am doing a project on the inclusion of Archery related words and > sayings into the English language. Does anyone know of a good source of > information for this, such as a website or a book. > Thanks very much in advance, > Joel. > Apparantly the phrase "cock-up", as in "you really did cock that up, didn’t > you?" came into being when archers incorrectly nocked the arrow so that the > cock feather touched the riser, causing a bad shot when the cock feather > strikes the bow, that is, they "cocked-up the shot"

Ner cast a clout ’til May is out, refers to the leather jacket (clout) that was worn by archers and is the reason that clout archery is around today only the leather jackets proved too expensive and were replaced by targets. Chris

Response:

EH? Clout is high mediaeval English for "Cloth". The original "clout" of a clout shoot was a cloth target laid out flat on the ground onto which the archer had to drop his shaft. Nowt to do with leather jerkins, old bean! J – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Ner cast a clout ’til May is out, refers to the leather jacket (clout) > that was worn by archers and is the reason that clout archery is > around today only the leather jackets proved too expensive and were > replaced by targets. > Chris

Response:

Have to agree with John here… Also there is much doubt about the "Cock up" theory…  :-) Fighting with Cocks has been very common for ages, when you put them together in the ring thats the cock up and its when a mess of feathers and blood ensue…hence "tha’s med a reet cock up theer, tha naws" Claim is also layed by the profession of Chair Bodgers (wooden chair makers) who assert that a badly made chair which has only three feet on the ground is "cocked up" so take your choice.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> EH? > Clout is high mediaeval English for "Cloth". The original "clout" of a > clout shoot was a cloth target laid out flat on the ground onto which the > archer had to drop his shaft. > Nowt to do with leather jerkins, old bean! > J > Ner cast a clout ’til May is out, refers to the leather jacket (clout) > that was worn by archers and is the reason that clout archery is > around today only the leather jackets proved too expensive and were > replaced by targets. > Chris

Response:

Score Cards?

Question:

I’m slowly getting back into archery after a few decades.  While I’m building up my arms & working on getting my equipment & form sorted out, I’d like to keep track of my practice results.  I figured the easiest thing to do would be to get some "score cards" like those used in competition.  I’m shooting indoors, and the local Club league seems to use the NFAA targets. Unfortunately, a web search came up with all sorts of mention of score cards in various rules, but no place to order them, no images, etc.   Does anyone know where I could get some, or download something I could print out?  I’m assuming they have twelve rows with 5 boxes, and I can certainly whip up something to work with for now.  I’m just curious as to what the heck a real one looks like & why they seem to be a big secret. Thanks! Doug White

Response:

Doug Ill be glad to help. Score cards can be brought in packs or books from most archery stores. Try www.quicks.com to buy them online. They typically consist of a number of rows (the number dependant on the round being shot) each of which has a dozen boxes diveded into half with a total at the end of each half. At the end of each row, is a total for that dozen, the number of hits, the number of golds and a running total. At the bottom of the score card is a place for yourself and a witness to sign that the score is correct. Hope it helps. AJ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I’m slowly getting back into archery after a few decades.  While I’m > building up my arms & working on getting my equipment & form sorted > out, I’d like to keep track of my practice results.  I figured the > easiest thing to do would be to get some "score cards" like those used > in competition.  I’m shooting indoors, and the local Club league seems > to use the NFAA targets. > Unfortunately, a web search came up with all sorts of mention of score > cards in various rules, but no place to order them, no images, etc.   > Does anyone know where I could get some, or download something I could > print out?  I’m assuming they have twelve rows with 5 boxes, and I can > certainly whip up something to work with for now.  I’m just curious as > to what the heck a real one looks like & why they seem to be a big > secret. > Thanks! > Doug White

Response:

Hi there Score cards a secret??? Naaahhh…. Here is a link to download the official danish scorecards from the National organisation. www.dbsf.dk On the menu to the left click download. On the download page you’ll find the word "Skydesedler" which is danish for scorecard. The scorecards are in excell format, and of course the text on them is in danish. You should however be able to figure them out…. There are three different scorecards in the worksheet as I remember, Outdoor, indoor and field archery, you select them by clicking the tabs at the bottom of the page. Jens Fudge, Archersoft Software for Archery – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’m slowly getting back into archery after a few decades.  While I’m > building up my arms & working on getting my equipment & form sorted > out, I’d like to keep track of my practice results.  I figured the > easiest thing to do would be to get some "score cards" like those used > in competition.  I’m shooting indoors, and the local Club league seems > to use the NFAA targets. > Unfortunately, a web search came up with all sorts of mention of score > cards in various rules, but no place to order them, no images, etc. > Does anyone know where I could get some, or download something I could > print out?  I’m assuming they have twelve rows with 5 boxes, and I can > certainly whip up something to work with for now.  I’m just curious as > to what the heck a real one looks like & why they seem to be a big > secret. > Thanks! > Doug White

Response:

Archery Gear Customer Service?

Question:

I’m just getting back into archery, and I got a new bow in December. It’s a PSE compound, and it’s great.  However, I’ve been having problems with some of the accessories.  Not a big deal, except emailing the manufacturers has been met with deafening silence. I have a Golden Premier rest, and I discovered that the ‘windage’ lock screw interferes with the tension lock screw in the top position.  I assume one or both of the screws is overly long, and I was wondering how to deal with this.  I sent them an email 2 days ago, and haven’t heard a peep. I also bought (at considerable expense) a Tru-Ball Chappy Boss release.   It was great in the shop & when I first started shooting with it.  It started feeling like the release tension was erratic, and I emailed them about a week ago.  Silence.  I did some more tests & discovered it only happens when it’s been warmed up by my hand.  I sent them this additional info two days ago.  More silence. I’m willing to wait a few more days to see if I ever get an answer out of either company before I go to the phone & demand a response.  Maybe I’m used to dealing with outfits that check their email more than once a week, or that seem genuinely interested in customer satisfaction, but I’m more than a bit disappointed that two of the big names in archery hardware don’t seem more responsive. Has anyone out there successfully dealt with customer service at either Golden Key or Tru-Ball?  Is everyone on vacation now that hunting season is over?  Am I being unreasonable, or are either or both of these companies notorious for lousy service?  I’m just hoping this isn’t the norm with archery manufacturers. Doug White

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I’m just getting back into archery, and I got a new bow in December. It’s >a PSE compound, and it’s great.  However, I’ve been having problems with >some of the accessories.  Not a big deal, except emailing the >manufacturers has been met with deafening silence. >I have a Golden Premier rest, and I discovered that the ‘windage’ lock >screw interferes with the tension lock screw in the top position.  I >assume one or both of the screws is overly long, and I was wondering how >to deal with this.  I sent them an email 2 days ago, and haven’t heard a >peep. >I also bought (at considerable expense) a Tru-Ball Chappy Boss release.   >It was great in the shop & when I first started shooting with it.  It >started feeling like the release tension was erratic, and I emailed them >about a week ago.  Silence.  I did some more tests & discovered it only >happens when it’s been warmed up by my hand.  I sent them this additional >info two days ago.  More silence. >I’m willing to wait a few more days to see if I ever get an answer out of >either company before I go to the phone & demand a response.  Maybe I’m >used to dealing with outfits that check their email more than once a >week, or that seem genuinely interested in customer satisfaction, but I’m >more than a bit disappointed that two of the big names in archery >hardware don’t seem more responsive. >Has anyone out there successfully dealt with customer service at either >Golden Key or Tru-Ball?  Is everyone on vacation now that hunting season >is over?  Am I being unreasonable, or are either or both of these >companies notorious for lousy service?  I’m just hoping this isn’t the >norm with archery manufacturers.

Your best bet is to work with the dealer you bought your equipment from. Alex     __O        _-<,_       (_)/ (_)

Response:

Keywords: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I’m just getting back into archery, and I got a new bow in December. It’s >a PSE compound, and it’s great.  However, I’ve been having problems with >some of the accessories.  Not a big deal, except emailing the >manufacturers has been met with deafening silence. >I have a Golden Premier rest, and I discovered that the ‘windage’ lock >screw interferes with the tension lock screw in the top position.  I >assume one or both of the screws is overly long, and I was wondering how >to deal with this.  I sent them an email 2 days ago, and haven’t heard a >peep. >I also bought (at considerable expense) a Tru-Ball Chappy Boss release.   >It was great in the shop & when I first started shooting with it.  It >started feeling like the release tension was erratic, and I emailed them >about a week ago.  Silence.  I did some more tests & discovered it only >happens when it’s been warmed up by my hand.  I sent them this additional >info two days ago.  More silence. >I’m willing to wait a few more days to see if I ever get an answer out of >either company before I go to the phone & demand a response.  Maybe I’m >used to dealing with outfits that check their email more than once a >week, or that seem genuinely interested in customer satisfaction, but I’m >more than a bit disappointed that two of the big names in archery >hardware don’t seem more responsive. >Has anyone out there successfully dealt with customer service at either >Golden Key or Tru-Ball?  Is everyone on vacation now that hunting season >is over?  Am I being unreasonable, or are either or both of these >companies notorious for lousy service?  I’m just hoping this isn’t the >norm with archery manufacturers. >Your best bet is to work with the dealer you bought your equipment from.

The dealer (although very good), is quite a ways away.  The last time I drove there thru evening traffic it took two hours.  I can’t run down there every time I have a small problem.  In the case of the rest, I can fix it myself if they’d just tell me what the correct screw lengths are. I still haven’t heard a peep from anyone.  I tried emailing three other archery vendors (Sure-Loc, Taxonics & Feather Light) with questions about their products this morning & I’ll be curious if I ever get a response from them.  At least there’s a potential sale on the line there, as opposed to a problem with a sale where they’ve already got money in the bank. Doug White

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Keywords: >>I’m just getting back into archery, and I got a new bow in December. It’s >>a PSE compound, and it’s great.  However, I’ve been having problems with >>some of the accessories.  Not a big deal, except emailing the >>manufacturers has been met with deafening silence. >>I have a Golden Premier rest, and I discovered that the ‘windage’ lock >>screw interferes with the tension lock screw in the top position.  I >>assume one or both of the screws is overly long, and I was wondering how >>to deal with this.  I sent them an email 2 days ago, and haven’t heard a >>peep. >>I also bought (at considerable expense) a Tru-Ball Chappy Boss release. >>It was great in the shop & when I first started shooting with it.  It >>started feeling like the release tension was erratic, and I emailed them >>about a week ago.  Silence.  I did some more tests & discovered it only >>happens when it’s been warmed up by my hand.  I sent them this additional >>info two days ago.  More silence. >>I’m willing to wait a few more days to see if I ever get an answer out of >>either company before I go to the phone & demand a response.  Maybe I’m >>used to dealing with outfits that check their email more than once a >>week, or that seem genuinely interested in customer satisfaction, but I’m >>more than a bit disappointed that two of the big names in archery >>hardware don’t seem more responsive. >>Has anyone out there successfully dealt with customer service at either >>Golden Key or Tru-Ball?  Is everyone on vacation now that hunting season >>is over?  Am I being unreasonable, or are either or both of these >>companies notorious for lousy service?  I’m just hoping this isn’t the >>norm with archery manufacturers. >Your best bet is to work with the dealer you bought your equipment from. > The dealer (although very good), is quite a ways away.  The last time I > drove there thru evening traffic it took two hours.  I can’t run down > there every time I have a small problem.  In the case of the rest, I can > fix it myself if they’d just tell me what the correct screw lengths are. > I still haven’t heard a peep from anyone.  I tried emailing three other > archery vendors (Sure-Loc, Taxonics & Feather Light) with questions about > their products this morning & I’ll be curious if I ever get a response > from them.  At least there’s a potential sale on the line there, as > opposed to a problem with a sale where they’ve already got money in the > bank. > Doug White

I must say that Golden Key not getting back to yous a bit odd.  When I needed the instructions for the premier rest(bought second hand) I sent them an email and got the reply 4 mins later and thats the fastest reply I’ve ever had.  The manual was  free of charge and sent Airmail from the US to GB. Chris

Response:

> I must say that Golden Key not getting back to yous a bit odd.  When I > needed the instructions for the premier rest(bought second hand) I sent them > an email and got the reply 4 mins later and thats the fastest reply I’ve > ever had.  The manual was  free of charge and sent Airmail from the US to

I’ve had EXCELLENT customer service via e-mail from Golden Key Futura.  That said, I don’t expect much from any company when I use e-mail to communicate. Pick up the phone and I’ll bet you’ll get the service you need. Good shooting, Bob —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Center Shot Question?

Question:

Is the center shot location sacred?  Everywhere I read that the end of the shaft should be aligned so that it’s right edge is just "touching" the string, when the string is centered on the limbs (for right-handed recurve shooters).  Is this sacred?  Does anyone shift the center shot to the right or left of this recommended alignment?  What is the effect of shifting this alignment?  Is there ever a reason for shifting this alignment? Norm

Response:

 > Is the center shot location sacred?  Everywhere I read that the end  > of the shaft should be aligned so that it’s right edge is just  > "touching" the string, when the string is centered on the limbs (for  > right-handed recurve shooters).  Is this sacred?  Does anyone shift  > the center shot to the right or left of this recommended alignment?  > What is the effect of shifting this alignment?  Is there ever a  > reason for shifting this alignment?  >  > Norm  > Centering the rest is very important. If the arrow is too far off in either direction, it will fishtail. Lay a stick on the ground and push it from one end. If you push in the same direction that the stick is lying, it will go straight. If you push at an angle to the stick, it will go sideways. The same applies to an arrow. If it’s pushed at an angle to the center of the bow, it will go sideways. However…just complicate things:  An arrow flexes when you release. The tip is adjusted slightly to one side of the string to compensate for the flex. If you shoot fingers rather than with a release, the flex is much more exaggerated so the tip needs to be farther off center. Dick

Response:

Yes, I am familiar with Archers Paradox.  I have been experimenting with moving my center shot.  I can make my slightly weak shafts act like they are correctly spined by moving the center shot away from the riser (right hand shooter).  That made me wonder if anyone moves the center shot away from the recommended position for any special reasons (wrong spine, clearance or some other).  And what are these reasons? Norm

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >  > Is the center shot location sacred?  Everywhere I read that the end >  > of the shaft should be aligned so that it’s right edge is just >  > "touching" the string, when the string is centered on the limbs (for >  > right-handed recurve shooters).  Is this sacred?  Does anyone shift >  > the center shot to the right or left of this recommended alignment? >  > What is the effect of shifting this alignment?  Is there ever a >  > reason for shifting this alignment? >  > Norm > Centering the rest is very important. If the arrow is too far off in > either direction, it will fishtail. Lay a stick on the ground and push > it from one end. If you push in the same direction that the stick is > lying, it will go straight. If you push at an angle to the stick, it > will go sideways. The same applies to an arrow. If it’s pushed at an > angle to the center of the bow, it will go sideways. > However…just complicate things:  An arrow flexes when you release. The > tip is adjusted slightly to one side of the string to compensate for the > flex. If you shoot fingers rather than with a release, the flex is much > more exaggerated so the tip needs to be farther off center. > Dick

Response:

Traditional English longbows have no shelf, or only a minimal shelf, so the arrow rests on the archer’s hand and is off center half the width of the bow.   The arrow deforms so much when it is leaving the bow that a little bit off center  (or a slightly warped arrow) probably makes little difference.  I have a few warped arrows that seem to shoot with the same accuracy as my straight ones ( I confess that I’m not that accurate, but can usually hit my target either with a sight or "instinctive" shooting).  I also found that helical fletching covered a multitude of sins and increased my accuracy considerably, and almost completely eliminated fishtailing.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Yes, I am familiar with Archers Paradox.  I have been experimenting with > moving my center shot.  I can make my slightly weak shafts act like they are > correctly spined by moving the center shot away from the riser (right hand > shooter).  That made me wonder if anyone moves the center shot away from the > recommended position for any special reasons (wrong spine, clearance or some > other).  And what are these reasons? > Norm >  > Is the center shot location sacred?  Everywhere I read that the end >  > of the shaft should be aligned so that it’s right edge is just >  > "touching" the string, when the string is centered on the limbs (for >  > right-handed recurve shooters).  Is this sacred?  Does anyone shift >  > the center shot to the right or left of this recommended alignment? >  > What is the effect of shifting this alignment?  Is there ever a >  > reason for shifting this alignment? >  > Norm > Centering the rest is very important. If the arrow is too far off in > either direction, it will fishtail. Lay a stick on the ground and push > it from one end. If you push in the same direction that the stick is > lying, it will go straight. If you push at an angle to the stick, it > will go sideways. The same applies to an arrow. If it’s pushed at an > angle to the center of the bow, it will go sideways. > However…just complicate things:  An arrow flexes when you release. The > tip is adjusted slightly to one side of the string to compensate for the > flex. If you shoot fingers rather than with a release, the flex is much > more exaggerated so the tip needs to be farther off center. > Dick

Response:

> Yes, I am familiar with Archers Paradox.  I have been experimenting with > moving my center shot.  I can make my slightly weak shafts act like they are > correctly spined by moving the center shot away from the riser (right hand > shooter).

Moving the center shot away from the riser makes the arrow act weaker. MA

Response:

Now I’m confused.  When my center shot is set just next to the string my arrows lean a little to the left at impact, about 10-15 degrees (right hand shooter) on every shot at 10m.  When I move my CS away from the riser about 2 shaft widths all of my shots land nearly or perfectly straight.  I have shot 100’s of shots with the standard CS alignment and about 15 or so with it set further away from the riser.  I will shoot more tonight to make sure but it sure looks like moving the CS away from the riser made the arrow act stiffer.  All this is shot with a stiff plunger-no spring, just a stick. I was thinking that a part of the reason the shaft flexes more than desired is the flex it gets from the string moving sideways when it rolls off my fingers.  So I thought maybe moving the pile further that same direction might help.  Maybe I’m thinking too much<BG> Norm

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Yes, I am familiar with Archers Paradox.  I have been experimenting > with > moving my center shot.  I can make my slightly weak shafts act like > they are > correctly spined by moving the center shot away from the riser (right > hand > shooter). > Moving the center shot away from the riser makes the arrow act weaker. > MA

Response:

> I was thinking that a part of the reason the shaft flexes more than desired > is the flex it gets from the string moving sideways when it rolls off my > fingers.  So I thought maybe moving the pile further that same direction > might help.  Maybe I’m thinking too much<BG>

Increasing the cs makes the arrow bend more, which is logical if you think about it. Does your unfletched shafts group with the fletched? MA

Response:

How your arrow sticks into the target doesn’t reflect how it is flying.  Just my fluke you could have an arrow fishtailing 3 inches side to side but hit the target while it’s pointed straight away from you.  Paper test this animal and see how the arrow is hitting just as it clears the bow. Just my $0.02 Gord – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Now I’m confused.  When my center shot is set just next to the string my > arrows lean a little to the left at impact, about 10-15 degrees (right hand > shooter) on every shot at 10m.  When I move my CS away from the riser about > 2 shaft widths all of my shots land nearly or perfectly straight.  I have > shot 100’s of shots with the standard CS alignment and about 15 or so with > it set further away from the riser.  I will shoot more tonight to make sure > but it sure looks like moving the CS away from the riser made the arrow act > stiffer.  All this is shot with a stiff plunger-no spring, just a stick. > I was thinking that a part of the reason the shaft flexes more than desired > is the flex it gets from the string moving sideways when it rolls off my > fingers.  So I thought maybe moving the pile further that same direction > might help.  Maybe I’m thinking too much<BG> > Norm > > Yes, I am familiar with Archers Paradox.  I have been experimenting > with > > moving my center shot.  I can make my slightly weak shafts act like > they are > > correctly spined by moving the center shot away from the riser (right > hand > > shooter). > Moving the center shot away from the riser makes the arrow act weaker. > MA

Response:

Miika, I am only shooting about 10m in my garage but the bareshafts are hitting pretty close to the fletched shafts,  maybe just bit to the right.  But I probably need to shoot more of both shafts with the CS moved out to be sure. Moving the CS out did move my bareshafts to the left; not sure about the fletched shafts; again need to shoot more. Norm

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I was thinking that a part of the reason the shaft flexes more than > desired > is the flex it gets from the string moving sideways when it rolls off > my > fingers.  So I thought maybe moving the pile further that same > direction > might help.  Maybe I’m thinking too much<BG> > Increasing the cs makes the arrow bend more, which is logical if you > think about it. Does your unfletched shafts group with the fletched? > MA

Response:

Gord, I have shot these animals from 5 and 10m with the normal CS and they hit the same.  The paper test from 5M shows the same, weak.  I haven’t shot the paper with the CS moved out.  Something to do tonight if I have time or tomorrow. Norm

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> How your arrow sticks into the target doesn’t reflect how it is flying. Just > my fluke you could have an arrow fishtailing 3 inches side to side but hit the > target while it’s pointed straight away from you.  Paper test this animal and > see how the arrow is hitting just as it clears the bow. > Just my $0.02 > Gord > Now I’m confused.  When my center shot is set just next to the string my > arrows lean a little to the left at impact, about 10-15 degrees (right hand > shooter) on every shot at 10m.  When I move my CS away from the riser about > 2 shaft widths all of my shots land nearly or perfectly straight.  I have > shot 100’s of shots with the standard CS alignment and about 15 or so with > it set further away from the riser.  I will shoot more tonight to make sure > but it sure looks like moving the CS away from the riser made the arrow act > stiffer.  All this is shot with a stiff plunger-no spring, just a stick. > I was thinking that a part of the reason the shaft flexes more than desired > is the flex it gets from the string moving sideways when it rolls off my > fingers.  So I thought maybe moving the pile further that same direction > might help.  Maybe I’m thinking too much<BG> > Norm > > > Yes, I am familiar with Archers Paradox.  I have been experimenting > > with > > > moving my center shot.  I can make my slightly weak shafts act like > > they are > > > correctly spined by moving the center shot away from the riser (right > > hand > > > shooter). > > Moving the center shot away from the riser makes the arrow act weaker. > > MA

Response:

> I have shot these animals from 5 and 10m with the normal CS and they hit the > same.  The paper test from 5M shows the same, weak.  I haven’t shot the > paper with the CS moved out.  Something to do tonight if I have time or > tomorrow.

Alu’s or carbons? For carbons 5-10m is too short, try to shoot from 30m and see what happens. MA

Response:

ACCs.  I shot some more last night with the same results.  With the standard CS the bareshafts impact 2-5cm to the right, leaning to the left fare enuf to make contact with the fletched shafts.  When I move the CS away from the riser both shafts move to the right and the bareshafts impact almost straight.  I looks like the midpoint of the bareshafts is "on target" but the pile is to the right and nock is to the left-kinds flying a little sideways. I was just wondering if anyone shot with the CS significantly diff from the recommended and if there are times when this recommended (maybe to correct for a weak/stiff spine?).  I don’t plan to leave mine out there; I just did it to see what the affect was.  I can put my spring in and bring the shafts together and group well enuf. Norm

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I have shot these animals from 5 and 10m with the normal CS and they hit the > same.  The paper test from 5M shows the same, weak.  I haven’t shot the > paper with the CS moved out.  Something to do tonight if I have time or > tomorrow. > Alu’s or carbons? For carbons 5-10m is too short, try to shoot from > 30m and see what happens. > MA

Response:

You should try the paper test a lot closer.  When I was shooting under the excellent tutelage of a 5 time Canadian indoor champ, we paper tested standing just far enough from the paper that the nock end of the arrow would be clear of the riser.  Usually when using target stabilizer in the 30" neighbourhood, stabilizer was almost touching the paper. Just my $0.02 Gord – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Gord, > I have shot these animals from 5 and 10m with the normal CS and they hit the > same.  The paper test from 5M shows the same, weak.  I haven’t shot the > paper with the CS moved out.  Something to do tonight if I have time or > tomorrow. > Norm > How your arrow sticks into the target doesn’t reflect how it is flying. > Just > my fluke you could have an arrow fishtailing 3 inches side to side but hit > the > target while it’s pointed straight away from you.  Paper test this animal > and > see how the arrow is hitting just as it clears the bow. > Just my $0.02 > Gord > > Now I’m confused.  When my center shot is set just next to the string my > > arrows lean a little to the left at impact, about 10-15 degrees (right > hand > > shooter) on every shot at 10m.  When I move my CS away from the riser > about > > 2 shaft widths all of my shots land nearly or perfectly straight.  I > have > > shot 100’s of shots with the standard CS alignment and about 15 or so > with > > it set further away from the riser.  I will shoot more tonight to make > sure > > but it sure looks like moving the CS away from the riser made the arrow > act > > stiffer.  All this is shot with a stiff plunger-no spring, just a stick. > > I was thinking that a part of the reason the shaft flexes more than > desired > > is the flex it gets from the string moving sideways when it rolls off my > > fingers.  So I thought maybe moving the pile further that same direction > > might help.  Maybe I’m thinking too much<BG> > > Norm > > > > Yes, I am familiar with Archers Paradox.  I have been experimenting > > > with > > > > moving my center shot.  I can make my slightly weak shafts act like > > > they are > > > > correctly spined by moving the center shot away from the riser > (right > > > hand > > > > shooter). > > > Moving the center shot away from the riser makes the arrow act weaker. > > > MA

Response:

> Yes, I am familiar with Archers Paradox.  I have been experimenting > with > moving my center shot.  I can make my slightly weak shafts act like > they are > correctly spined by moving the center shot away from the riser (right > hand > shooter). > Moving the center shot away from the riser makes the arrow act weaker. > MA

Miika, I’m curious, is moving the CS a valid way to do fine tuning, or should it *only* ever be used as a *starting* point (*before* making pressure button changes in order to "finalise" the tuning)? -Mac

Response:

T4T and TaTa.   (TaTa is pure speculation and only useful within a very-close-to-tuned-bow, I think….   http://www.texasarchery.org/L1/DocumentsRecords.htm – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->You should try the paper test a lot closer.  When I was shooting under the >excellent tutelage of a 5 time Canadian indoor champ, we paper tested standing >just far enough from the paper that the nock end of the arrow would be clear of >the riser.  Usually when using target stabilizer in the 30" neighbourhood, >stabilizer was almost touching the paper. >Just my $0.02 >Gord >Gord, >I have shot these animals from 5 and 10m with the normal CS and they hit the >same.  The paper test from 5M shows the same, weak.  I haven’t shot the >paper with the CS moved out.  Something to do tonight if I have time or >tomorrow. >Norm >>How your arrow sticks into the target doesn’t reflect how it is flying. >Just >>my fluke you could have an arrow fishtailing 3 inches side to side but hit >the >>target while it’s pointed straight away from you.  Paper test this animal >and >>see how the arrow is hitting just as it clears the bow. >>Just my $0.02 >>Gord >>>Now I’m confused.  When my center shot is set just next to the string my >>>arrows lean a little to the left at impact, about 10-15 degrees (right >hand >>>shooter) on every shot at 10m.  When I move my CS away from the riser >about >>>2 shaft widths all of my shots land nearly or perfectly straight.  I >have >>>shot 100’s of shots with the standard CS alignment and about 15 or so >with >>>it set further away from the riser.  I will shoot more tonight to make >sure >>>but it sure looks like moving the CS away from the riser made the arrow >act >>>stiffer.  All this is shot with a stiff plunger-no spring, just a stick. >>>I was thinking that a part of the reason the shaft flexes more than >desired >>>is the flex it gets from the string moving sideways when it rolls off my >>>fingers.  So I thought maybe moving the pile further that same direction >>>might help.  Maybe I’m thinking too much<BG> >>>Norm >>>>>Yes, I am familiar with Archers Paradox.  I have been experimenting >>>>with >>>>>moving my center shot.  I can make my slightly weak shafts act like >>>>they are >>>>>correctly spined by moving the center shot away from the riser >(right >>>>hand >>>>>shooter). >>>>Moving the center shot away from the riser makes the arrow act weaker. >>>>MA

Response:

Thanks Gord.  I have not shot the paper that close.  I’ll give it a try to see how it compares with 5m. I really didn’t start this thread with a problem, just curious about the CS position and how everyone used it. Norm

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> You should try the paper test a lot closer.  When I was shooting under the > excellent tutelage of a 5 time Canadian indoor champ, we paper tested standing > just far enough from the paper that the nock end of the arrow would be clear of > the riser.  Usually when using target stabilizer in the 30" neighbourhood, > stabilizer was almost touching the paper. > Just my $0.02 > Gord > Gord, > I have shot these animals from 5 and 10m with the normal CS and they hit the > same.  The paper test from 5M shows the same, weak.  I haven’t shot the > paper with the CS moved out.  Something to do tonight if I have time or > tomorrow. > Norm > > How your arrow sticks into the target doesn’t reflect how it is flying. > Just > > my fluke you could have an arrow fishtailing 3 inches side to side but hit > the > > target while it’s pointed straight away from you.  Paper test this animal > and > > see how the arrow is hitting just as it clears the bow. > > Just my $0.02 > > Gord > > > Now I’m confused.  When my center shot is set just next to the string my > > > arrows lean a little to the left at impact, about 10-15 degrees (right > hand > > > shooter) on every shot at 10m.  When I move my CS away from the riser > about > > > 2 shaft widths all of my shots land nearly or perfectly straight.  I > have > > > shot 100’s of shots with the standard CS alignment and about 15 or so > with > > > it set further away from the riser.  I will shoot more tonight to make > sure > > > but it sure looks like moving the CS away from the riser made the arrow > act > > > stiffer.  All this is shot with a stiff plunger-no spring, just a stick. > > > I was thinking that a part of the reason the shaft flexes more than > desired > > > is the flex it gets from the string moving sideways when it rolls off my > > > fingers.  So I thought maybe moving the pile further that same direction > > > might help.  Maybe I’m thinking too much<BG> > > > Norm > > > > > Yes, I am familiar with Archers Paradox.  I have been experimenting > > > > with > > > > > moving my center shot.  I can make my slightly weak shafts act like > > > > they are > > > > > correctly spined by moving the center shot away from the riser > (right > > > > hand > > > > > shooter). > > > > Moving the center shot away from the riser makes the arrow act weaker. > > > > MA

Response:

> When I move the CS away from the > riser both shafts move to the right and the bareshafts impact almost > straight.

But on the right side? > I was just wondering if anyone shot with the CS significantly diff from the > recommended and if there are times when this recommended (maybe to correct > for a weak/stiff spine?).

Plunger tuning shouldn’t (and can’t be) used to correct wrong spine. It is meant only for fine tuning. Use different point weight , different poundage and different strings to get the dynamic spine desired. Correct CS can be found with specific tuning methods for CS. MA

Response:

> Miika, I’m curious, is moving the CS a valid way to do fine tuning, or > should it *only* ever be used as a *starting* point (*before* making > pressure button changes in order to "finalise" the tuning)?

I would categorize it as a fine tunig method, the recommended* CS being a "starting point". MA *Point on the left side of the string for RH archer.

Response:

Oops, you caught my typo.  Sorry.  They both moved to the left when I moved the CS to the left (out).  Good catch. So, is it best to just leave the CS aligned with the end of shaft "touching" the string unless something weird is happening?  I can leave it there, adjust my nock, put a spring in and bring the 2 shafts together at 18m.  If you haven’t noticed I do a lot of shooting with a stiff plunger just to see what happens without that correction factor.  I probably worry too much about arrow flight and not enuf about where it hits :^0   Hey, if you can’t shoot good, at least shoot a good setup:-)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> When I move the CS away from the > riser both shafts move to the right and the bareshafts impact almost > straight. > But on the right side? > I was just wondering if anyone shot with the CS significantly diff > from the > recommended and if there are times when this recommended (maybe to > correct > for a weak/stiff spine?). > Plunger tuning shouldn’t (and can’t be) used to correct wrong spine. It > is meant only for fine tuning. Use different point weight , different > poundage and different strings to get the dynamic spine desired. > Correct CS can be found with specific tuning methods for CS. > MA

Response:

> So, is it best to just leave the CS aligned with the end of shaft "touching" > the string unless something weird is happening?

I would leave it there UNLESS your tuning and testing shows otherwise. I don’t see why it would, tough. > I probably worry too much > about arrow flight and not enuf about where it hits :^0

Well, correctly tuned bow doesn’t hurt anyone;) What kind of Fita scores are you shooting? MA

Response:

OK Gord, this is way OT for this thread but I did some more paper shooting, stiff plunger.  I get the same results at 1m, 2m, 5m and 10m.  Weak spine leaning to the left.  The lean and tear get larger the further I am from the paper up to 10m.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> You should try the paper test a lot closer.  When I was shooting under the > excellent tutelage of a 5 time Canadian indoor champ, we paper tested standing > just far enough from the paper that the nock end of the arrow would be clear of > the riser.  Usually when using target stabilizer in the 30" neighbourhood, > stabilizer was almost touching the paper. > Just my $0.02 > Gord > Gord, > I have shot these animals from 5 and 10m with the normal CS and they hit the > same.  The paper test from 5M shows the same, weak.  I haven’t shot the > paper with the CS moved out.  Something to do tonight if I have time or > tomorrow. > Norm > > How your arrow sticks into the target doesn’t reflect how it is flying. > Just > > my fluke you could have an arrow fishtailing 3 inches side to side but hit > the > > target while it’s pointed straight away from you.  Paper test this animal > and > > see how the arrow is hitting just as it clears the bow. > > Just my $0.02 > > Gord > > > Now I’m confused.  When my center shot is set just next to the string my > > > arrows lean a little to the left at impact, about 10-15 degrees (right > hand > > > shooter) on every shot at 10m.  When I move my CS away from the riser > about > > > 2 shaft widths all of my shots land nearly or perfectly straight.  I > have > > > shot 100’s of shots with the standard CS alignment and about 15 or so > with > > > it set further away from the riser.  I will shoot more tonight to make > sure > > > but it sure looks like moving the CS away from the riser made the arrow > act > > > stiffer.  All this is shot with a stiff plunger-no spring, just a stick. > > > I was thinking that a part of the reason the shaft flexes more than > desired > > > is the flex it gets from the string moving sideways when it rolls off my > > > fingers.  So I thought maybe moving the pile further that same direction > > > might help.  Maybe I’m thinking too much<BG> > > > Norm > > > > > Yes, I am familiar with Archers Paradox.  I have been experimenting > > > > with > > > > > moving my center shot.  I can make my slightly weak shafts act like > > > > they are > > > > > correctly spined by moving the center shot away from the riser > (right > > > > hand > > > > > shooter). > > > > Moving the center shot away from the riser makes the arrow act weaker. > > > > MA

Response:

> OK Gord, this is way OT for this thread but I did some more paper shooting, > stiff plunger.  I get the same results at 1m, 2m, 5m and 10m.  Weak spine > leaning to the left.  The lean and tear get larger the further I am from the > paper up to 10m.

Do you shoot better with stiff or weak arrow? MA

Response:

Don’t know.  Never shot a stiff arrow on this bow.  I plan to get a set of stiffer shafts this week.  I’m shooting 3L-18s.  But I think 3-28s would more suit my setup.  I draw about 29.5" and about 43#.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> OK Gord, this is way OT for this thread but I did some more paper > shooting, > stiff plunger.  I get the same results at 1m, 2m, 5m and 10m.  Weak > spine > leaning to the left.  The lean and tear get larger the further I am > from the > paper up to 10m. > Do you shoot better with stiff or weak arrow? > MA

Response:

> Don’t know.  Never shot a stiff arrow on this bow.  I plan to get a set of > stiffer shafts this week.  I’m shooting 3L-18s.  But I think 3-28s would > more suit my setup.  I draw about 29.5" and about 43#.

Snap. I’ve got 3-28’s, and while they spine right, the FOC isn’t great. Might be worth thinking about 3-39’s with 100 grain points. 7om

Response:

Tom, I’m doing 3L-18s with 100 grain piles, 1.75" Flex Fletch vanes (straight), G nocks, FF 16 strand, and a brass nockset now.  I bet 3-39s with 100 would be too stiff for me.  Maybe I could crank up the #s a bit.  What is the #s on your fingers? My current FOC with the 18s is about 11.5.  I know I could just go with the 87g piles for my 18s and come a lot closer to the correct spine but when I move outdoors the wind would wreak havoc on my already lame shooting.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Don’t know.  Never shot a stiff arrow on this bow.  I plan to get a set of > stiffer shafts this week.  I’m shooting 3L-18s.  But I think 3-28s would > more suit my setup.  I draw about 29.5" and about 43#. > Snap. I’ve got 3-28’s, and while they spine right, the FOC isn’t great. > Might be worth thinking about 3-39’s with 100 grain points. > 7om

Response: